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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #21  
Old 11-30-2008
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Hmmm. Not to be a contrarian, but I don't think you should resign. Obviously you need to do what you believe is right, but you seem to accept that Sailnet did not do anything unethical or inappropriate. As you say, "they" made a business decision, and one that probably made sense. Being in that business of suing and getting sued, I can say that your estimate of tens of thousands of dollars in legal costs probably is off by a zero. Or two. No joke, the cost of litigation absolutely can crush a company, particularly one that is not very well funded. It happens all the time, and if you can't afford the fight, your only choice is to settle, regardless of how right you might be. From what you say, the culprit clearly is Tartan, and these kinds of things have a way of getting out, so I wouldn't worry about sailors not getting the word on this or future similar occurrences. Indeed, Tartan probably just ensured that this gets more attention than it otherwise would have gotten.

But more important than all of that, you can't do anything about it if you resign. The only way to have an impact is to stay in the fight, so to speak. If you resign, they win.

Anyway, as you know George, I have great respect and fondness for you, and whatever you decide you'll hear no criticism from me (at least not any that isn't followed by a smiley face). You're a great moderator and a great asset, not just to Sailnet but to sailors. That's why I would prefer not to lose you as a moderator. Of course you still can help by simply participating, but you can and would do more by moderating.

So, that's my pitch for you to stay on.

Respectfully,

Dan
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2008
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Cam, you did a great job as moderator/cat herder and a better job in resigning for your principles.

I don't blame Sailnet, either; they are in a no-win situation.

Was the thread saved in any form? There is a chance it could be posted elsewhere as "fair comment".

You guys in the States still have "fair comment", right?
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2008
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Playing devil's advocate here, Sailnet IS exercising their free speech rights. What is posted here, on THEIR site, is their business. If one wants to exercise their speech rights, they can get their own soap box.

We are guests.

Having said that, I too abhor strong arm tactics and the American habit of lawyering up.
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Old 11-30-2008
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Always interesting when companies that have forums like this fall under the "100 ton threats". Legally speaking, there is precedence already established - and it occurred in the early BBS days that open forums where content is driven by users and not paid for - a company can not be held liable for the actions of, or content provided by those users. I should know - as I used to operate a mega-BBS back in the days and saw my own share of "frivolous intimidation threats to remove content"..

I highly doubt Tartan can spend $$$ to do such lawsuits, considering the amount of $$$ they are spending to protect whatever assets they have.

None the less Cam, think about all the FREE time you will have to design a sail plan for your RV, and the time now you will have the family that you now will have to go on vacations with instead of sending us on temporary vacations... Life will be good...

You did the right thing...Its hard to see where Sailnet is going as of late - but I have noticed as of late that overall - not nearly as active as it used to be when I first started posting beginning of the year... You'll be missed as a moderator of reason and think the group of you did really awesome work to keep the atmosphere the type that made me at least enjoy the forums...

Best wishes
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  #25  
Old 11-30-2008
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Its all been said above, and I echo all of it. As someone who has come back to this forum after a few years absence, your posts along with a handful of regulars jump out at me as the framework of a real informative warm sailing community. That you are a principled individual who is willing to stand by what he believes is commendable beyond comment.
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  #26  
Old 11-30-2008
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Cam,
About your resignation:
You did the right thing to resign and to tell us why.
There is something good in this as well. With your moderator power you had also moderator obligations. You had to be objective and tolerate opinions which you maybe did not like. Now you are free to express your opinion, as it is only yours.
About Tartan (or any other company blocking information): If a product have issues I like to know about them. If the company openly talks about it and allow others to talk about them I can make educated decision and still buy the product. We all know Internet is not all gold, but let me decide it by reading it.
But if the company does not allow others to openly speak about issues of their products it is a big STOP sign for me. If I do not know what are the issues I do not even consider that product. There are others on the market.

Cam, thanks for good work, please contribute as normal user and in a year you may get bored and take moderation again.
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  #27  
Old 11-30-2008
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Best wishes there Cam.

What a marvellous law it must be that the loser of a lawsuit does not pay the costs of the winner. When potential costs stop the potential winner from fighting, then the law is rotten to the core.

There will probably be silence on this issue for a while, but in the meantime, I won't buy anything from them.

Is that libellous?

Last edited by Rockter; 11-30-2008 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 11-30-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielgoldberg View Post
I wouldn't worry about sailors not getting the word on this or future similar occurrences. Indeed, Tartan probably just ensured that this gets more attention than it otherwise would have gotten.
Dan
I didn't know a thing about the Tartan thread, or any alleged issues with their yachts until this. In addition to knowing about the alleged issues, I know also now know that they appear to not be a particularly nice bunch of people.

This is a good thing for the firstmate and I, as now our list of potential dreamboats just got narrowed down.
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  #29  
Old 11-30-2008
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Cam:

A year ago I was accused of spamming when I described my positive experiences with Prism Polish. It was one of my first posts and I was quite taken aback by all the negative responses. You not only set the contributors straight, you contacted me privately to discuss the situation and to get the facts directly. You are a man of principle and integrity and your resignation is a loss to Sailnet as well as the rest of us. I am glad that you will remain as a member, but furious that Tartan would use the threat of legal action to intimidate Sailnet and to put yet one more crack into the bell of free speech. The funny thing about this is that until now, I was not aware of the Tartan problem. Had they let well enough alone, I most likely would never have been. Looks like I got some surfin' to do!!!

JLBJR
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Old 11-30-2008
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Cam—

Your voice as a moderator will be missed, since you were always very proactive in keeping the rest of us in line with a great sense of humor and fairness. I do hope you stick around, even if you're only sailing an RV on dry land for the near foreseeable future, as the loss of your experience and knowledge would really blow chunks.

I also understand why you chose to resign your role as moderator, given the "legal politics" of the situation. You are a man of honor and integrity, which is passingly rare as our friend Sway has pointed out.

It does speak volumes about Tartan/Novis/Tim Jackett needs to go and threaten various internet fora regarding open and honest discussions of their product and the problems with them, rather than responding openly and defending themselves.

While Tartan/Novis/Jackett may not have the money to pay for any such litigation, the threat is a serious one to the financial stability of any company in today's economic climate. Also, the fact is, the US court system is pretty screwed up, and there is little consequence for filing a frivolous or baseless lawsuit the way it is currently structured—and many lawyers are greedy enough and unscrupulous enough to file a suit as such.

I do feel let disappointed by the fact that you've now left us to the mercies of a mostly unchecked CruisingDad, who will be forcing his BBQ Catalina agenda on us without hesitation or restraint now that the sole voice of reason has vanished.
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