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post #71 of 255 Old 11-30-2008
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Cam it is more than sad ..it is demoralizing

Cam I don't know you , and my relative short affiliation with this site , not allow me to have a full view of this nonsense .. but being a Broker myself who sell new and used sail boats it is blood boiling to learn that , what happened .. in many level
Our company have dropped brands before , for a very same reason : we learned about the product and experienced the problems and WE made the choice not to represent a brand what can not live up to the quality and value what we like to offer and standing by ..
We in sailboat business... we don't selling used cars , but selling passion, lifestyles, honesty , and the art of the sailing life ..there is no amount of money worth to exchange that for any builder ,
If Sail Net bullied in to make a choice by a lawyer-ed up company ..it is not only sad but demoralizing ... If "that Builder" instead of muscle his way around correct that very much well known problems would be a better world for all of us ..but substandard people have substandard morals,

I hope we hear from you again , time to time ,

free speech we giving up, in all level of our life , and this is just a new nail to the coffin what we the "people" building so willingly .. is sickening !

I know what sailboat I will not sell ever again
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post #72 of 255 Old 11-30-2008
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HS,

The problem I see with you premise, is it sounded like Mr Ross of Novus was the one doing the calling etc, not an attorney!

But, items like this are why another site I moderate on, if lawsuits etc are going against them, folks on the site take a grievance to court, or equal, ie BBB for instance, then all posts are deleted until the grievance has been heard etc. Then new posts by said person can be kept.

In the mean time, some of the issue being squaked about here IMHO with due respect to George, may be his own undoing. Along with sailnet to a degree.

I do not have an issue with George, as he is a god guy, and does want to help etc those asking for help with issues, Is not afraid to jump into a quarrel, as I am probably doing here with my opin above, but what the hay, will not be the first time, nor the last. Along with he DOES have opinions as we all do, and is not afraid to say them!

Enjoy this while it lasts.
Marty

She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
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post #73 of 255 Old 11-30-2008
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Nice post...I think Cam did the right thing all the way around.. I followed the threads..and what swayed me the most was his diligence into the actions of the company in light of the issues. If sailnet continues to fall to the knees of lawsuits before they happen... this will be a sore place to get info from. Cam was at least always diligent and any issues I ever had - he chatted honestly with me or at least played third party (voluntarily) so I didn't blow up in the forums... A true class act...The more we know - the better we are as a community and I think honestedly he has always pursued that as a moderator...

-- Jody

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post #74 of 255 Old 11-30-2008
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Cam helped me and my crew with our offshore trip this summer from Morehead City NC to Block Island, RI. We faced a challenge and needed advice, and he was there for consultation and weather interpretation etc. and he really had nothing to gain from being so helpful - He is just a nice guy. For that I am very thankful! In addition his posts here have been helpful and insightful on so many subjects and I, for one, have relied on them. Hopefully you will still post.

Sailnet, don't be easily intimidated. You could have required Bill Ross and his unsavory crew to notify you in writing of any specific posts with inaccurate statements and promised to remove them. That would protect your from the charge that you were abetting false information that hared the company. Even a cheap lawyer could have easily helped you navigate this rather than remove the whole thread. You (whoever the "you" in sailnet is, I really don't know) should definitely issue a formal reasoning for this removal. Alot of Sailnet members have put a lot of time into sorting through and understanding that thread.

The word is out, Tartan is now a failed company. I talked to a broker last week who had one (a couple of years old) - He says it isn't getting any attention from knowledgeable sailors because the reputation is shot. All the high tech buzzwords don't mean a thing to the informed consumer. Muzzling the board through legal intimidation isn't a path for success. Believe it.

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things y%^&*.....oh never mind. 90% of the people on sailing forums already use that as their signature! I'm not a conformist.
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post #75 of 255 Old 11-30-2008
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You know, Cam, the old gray matter fired up and reminded me of something that happened in the early 70's. There was a minor disagreement about how someone would or would not let a public event be covered by a newspaper, a and the editor make a clear judgment call. "You don't want us to cover it our way? OK, we won't cover it. That's it people, everyone leave, no further coverage on this subject."

And we all left. After another week with zero coverage....at all in any way....we were told to go back to covering it exactly the way it had been covered. (Fairly and equitably, I might add.)

So here's a hypothetical exercise for folks to consider. Not a suggestion that they DO ANYTHING, just a hypothetical for consideration:

Since some parties seem to think that certain discussions of certain products could have an adverse effect on commerce, perhaps the owners of ALL SAILING AND BOATING FORUMS be encouraged to remove ALL MENTION OF THOSE BRANDS AND PRODUCTS and to put up a filter that makes sure they are entirely removed from the public view EVERYWHERE. If the lawyers feel that the courts are the only fit venue for discussion of their products, make it so.

After all, fair's fair. The lawyers don't want to see their name mentioned, OK, let's make that happen for them. And encourage other boating forums to do the same helpful thing. No further mention of the brand(s) being affected, anyplace, anywhere, anytime, until after the matter has been settled and some court-endorsed facts have been determined as fair for discussion.

Doesn't that seem, well, in the most helpful spirit?
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post #76 of 255 Old 11-30-2008
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Originally Posted by y111x View Post
Actually this made my day. Motivated me to join up and post. Good to see you gone.As a moderator you were biased and condescending. Also, I see you are still posting incorrect information. Hope they delete this thread too.
Wow you must be pretty thin skinned and sensitive if you thought Cam was condecending.

If Cam irritated your tender sensibilites, I doubt you'll last long (or add much value) here since there are alot of members here that make Cam look like a saint.

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post #77 of 255 Old 11-30-2008
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Originally Posted by y111x View Post
Actually this made my day.
So happy for you.

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Originally Posted by y111x View Post
Motivated me to join up and post.
And one can readily see Sailnet will be the better for it!

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Good to see you gone.
He's not gone. Your reading skills could use some work.

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As a moderator you were biased and condescending.
Cites, please?

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Also, I see you are still posting incorrect information.
Care to back-up your assertion with some proof?

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Hope they delete this thread too.
What century you living in? The rest of us are in the 21st century. There is this thing called the "Internet." Companies and individuals are finding out they can run, but they can no longer hide. They find out, usually the hard way, that whacking one irritant only results in dozens or hundreds replacing it.

Jim
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post #78 of 255 Old 11-30-2008
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George...you know...good...all that we spoke

I'll call
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post #79 of 255 Old 11-30-2008
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Hopefully this will pass, like a fart in the wind, but it does worry me that yesterday I went back onto Cruiser Forum for the first time in over a year...
What are we, separated at birth? I did the same thing last week...frankly, the sheer volume of serious, fun-free posts there depresses me.
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post #80 of 255 Old 11-30-2008
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Cam,
Thank you for all the time and effort you have put into making the sailnet community a better place for all. Please stay around and provide your insights, knowledge and humor.
Michael

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