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camaraderie 11-29-2008 09:21 PM

I have resigned as moderator.
First let me say that this is no joke and allow me to thank the many good friends and members who have made my job as moderator worthwhile and lent their support in tough times. I am NOT leaving sailnet; just ending my tenure as a moderator. Now let me get into why.

As many are aware, I started a "Prospective Tartan Buyers" thread here in summer of 2007. My initial purpose was to make members aware that there were reports of Tartan/C&C hull and outdrive problems and that a couple of owners had filed suit. I took no side then on that issue but merely alerted potential customers to a possible issue and suggested that buyers get a survey done and/or investigate the reports on their own. A year and a half and 464 posts later, the thread had taken on a life of its own and many unflattering facts had come to light about the management and legal and financial position of the company while the original issue I raised has still not been settled by the courts. It is not my intention to re-hash that thread here. The important thing to me is that the thread alerted fellow sailors to the possibility of some product problems that could possibly be a major issue at sea AND that Tartan/Novis has well over $1million dollars in judgment liens OPEN against them and several more suits pending. Prospective buyers should be aware of this so that they can take steps to protect themselves before taking possession of a boat or making deposits.

Imagine my surprise when Sailnet took this thread off line in late October.
To make a long story short... William Ross, President of Novis/Tartan called Sailnet management to complain about the "biased" nature of the thread and asked them to take it down. He made it clear that there was a possibility of legal action if they did not.

Sailnet management removed the thread without understanding the content or context since they do NOT follow this board closely. They did understand the math...remove the thread at no cost...or face a possible lawsuit costing 10's of thousands of dollars.

Over the last few weeks, CruisingDad and I have been trying to help Sailnet management understand the thread and they have come to realize, I believe, that there is a moral issue here and a free speech issue as well as a business issue. The bottom line is that despite what they might like or choose to do in normal times... they simply cannot afford to get involved in a lawsuit even if there is an overwhelming likelihood that they would eventually win. I was told that they would have to lay someone off to be able to fight a suit. Given that stark choice, I told Sailnet that I would probably make the same decision to delete the thread... but could no longer remain a moderator for a site that deletes a thread so important to sailors.

So folks...that is the unvarnished truth. I am not sure if this post will be allowed to stand or be deleted too and would ask my friends to make copies of it so that if it is deleted, it may go viral!

I want to once again state that I bear NO ill will to anyone at sailnet as they are not the CAUSE of the thread being deleted...only the implementers and VERY reluctant ones at that. For those still interested in reading the content of the thread you can get it all but in bits and pieces at Google using their "cache" function and entering prospective tartan in the google search box.

I intend to remain a contributing member here with my friends unless my posts start getting deleted in which case you can find me over at cruisersforum under the same screen name.

Again... thank you all for your support and understanding.


bubb2 11-29-2008 09:38 PM

Cam, I don't know what to say, but I do understand. Your efforts have made the forum Great. My respect goes out to you the way you handled a thankless job.

CalebD 11-29-2008 09:48 PM

So, not only is the formerly good name of Tartan Yachts ( & C & C) being dragged through the mud by their current management but our good friend and (former) moderator Camaraderie is resigning.
This is a sad day for free speech my friends and a very sad day for the Novis/Tartan brand. This kind of strong armed tactic should be very reassuring to prospective buyers.
I still like my pre-Novis built Tartan 27' from 1967 whent the company had a high standard of quality and integrity.
Mostly, I am sorry to hear of the anguish and BS you had to endure through all of this Cam. You have been nothing but a gentleman here, IMHO.
A sad day indeed.
T27 #328, 'Odalisque'

sailboy21 11-29-2008 09:54 PM

The fact that they (Tartan) are actively engaged in pursuing discussion threads on the internet and requesting they be removed speaks volumes more than even the thread itself could ever say. Thank you for your service here on sailnet. I have always enjoyed your posts and respected your "moderation."

denby 11-29-2008 09:56 PM


Very sorry to see you give up your position. You did a very good job as moderator and will miss pocking fun at your red button, but I do understand your decision. glad you will still be here as a member to share your wealth of knowledge.

Bene505 11-29-2008 10:18 PM

Camraderie -- Very sad to see you relinquish your post. You've been a great moderator.

All -- Is anyone going to try to capture the old thread? Just because sailnet can't host it, doesn't mean it has to go away.

captbillc 11-29-2008 10:19 PM

cam_____ thanks for the help you have given me when i needed it . you did a great lob as moderator. sorry to see the elimination of free speech . do we sig heil to tarten with our upraised arm. i am old enough to remember hitlers fanatic followers with their upraised arms

tdw 11-29-2008 10:24 PM'll get no grief from me for standing by your principles.......


tdw 11-29-2008 10:30 PM


Originally Posted by tdw (Post 408995)'ll get no grief from me for standing by your principles.......


ps - refer to my post re SA v SN on the DC thread....maybe this is part of what it's all about......

btrayfors 11-29-2008 10:32 PM

Sorry to hear you're resigning as Moderator, Cam. Have always enjoyed and valued your posts.

And, I hope that you will continue to participate here and elsewhere. Your name and reputation are such that it won't matter a damned bit to most Sailnet participants that the "Moderator" title will no longer appear with your name.


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