Have I Gone Knots? - SailNet Community
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post #1 of 27 Old 12-27-2008 Thread Starter
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Have I Gone Knots?

The Admiral and a friend went out for a bit of shopping, yesterday, and I decided I needed an antidote for five nights of Christmas movies, none of which included such Christmas classics as Die Hard or Lethal Weapon, by way of a good shoot-'em-up. In this case: Under Siege. At one point Our Hero seizes upon the opportunity to drop a length of I-beam on a bad guy, so he reaches over to where the line suspending it from a block is hitched to a railing, gives the end a good yank and... waitaminute: What's that knot? That looks useful. Pause. Rewind. Forward in slow-motion. Pause. Rewind in slow motion. Pause. Damn! Missed the frame! Forward in slow-motion. Why doesn't this !@$!!$! DVD player have frame-by-frame?. Rewind in slow motion... Got part of it! And so-on, for I-don't-know-how-long.

I think I finally got it. Hard to say, working with a completely different kind of rope. But I've got a slipped hitch that appears to hold, and that releases just like in the movie.

I wonder what it is? It's not in any of my books. I wasn't able to find any reference to "the knot seen in Under Siege." Anybody know?

Jim
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post #2 of 27 Old 12-27-2008
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I think I know what you're talking about

I think I've seen that knot in a book. It's a way of tying a line (half of it anyway to an object, rapelling down the GOOD half and then jerking on the other half to release the line and it all comes down.
JUST BE CERTAIN YOU PUT YOUR WEIGHT ON THE CORRECT PIECE OF LINE!

I don't have a picture handy but IIRC you start w/ a loop in the middle of your line, take it over the bar or whatever you're tying off to and then take a couple of successive bights to put tension on the line. I can't describe it but it works. (I've never had the B---s to actually rappel down said line)
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post #3 of 27 Old 12-27-2008
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Didn't see the movie. It seems you went through a lot of frustration instead of relaxing and enjoying the movie.

Dennis
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Hey stuffit "Get a life"
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post #4 of 27 Old 12-27-2008
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Check with the Ashley Book of Knots. The slip knot/hitch should be in there for you to to gander and and learn to tie.
Then learn the chain hitch that is used on the cod end of nets. One pull and the Cod End opens like a zipper.

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post #5 of 27 Old 12-27-2008
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I looked at the seen a couple of times and me thinks it is edited and that is why it is not clear.

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post #6 of 27 Old 12-27-2008
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Try looking up a "slip clove hitch". We use it to secure fender lines to railings and lifelines. It is easy to tie, easy to untie, and pretty strong. Be careful using stiff, slippery, or polypro line. Make sure to leave a long bight in the slip part. Have fun!

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post #7 of 27 Old 12-27-2008 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
I think I've seen that knot in a book. It's a way of tying a line (half of it anyway to an object, rapelling down the GOOD half and then jerking on the other half to release the line and it all comes down.
It looks like it'd work for that. I put my short piece of heavy sprinkler line I use to simulate a railing, or whatever, between my feet, pulled on the standing end as hard as I could with both hands, and had The Admiral release it. She had to give the end a couple of pretty hard yanks, but it came free.

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JUST BE CERTAIN YOU PUT YOUR WEIGHT ON THE CORRECT PIECE OF LINE!
Well, yeah . When this thing comes free, there's nothing wrapped around anything.

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Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
I don't have a picture handy but IIRC you start w/ a loop in the middle of your line, take it over the bar or whatever you're tying off to and then take a couple of successive bights to put tension on the line.
I'll try to describe it. Form a clockwise overhand loop where you want the hitch, with the working end to the inside. Grab the bottom of the loop, bring it under the the rail (or whatever it is to which you want to secure it), away from you, and up under the top half of the loop. Take the bight thus formed, bring it up along the standing part and take an anti-clockwise turn around the standing part. Make a bight in the w'end and pass it through that bight. Let the standing part take the load until everything is snugged-down. I can do it quite quickly, now.

I've tested it by hand, as well as I'm able, loading and unloading it, and it appears quite secure. Once it's tightened-up, it gets to a certain point and doesn't appear to be inclined to move any more. Even under as much load as I was able to put on it by hand, it can still be released.

The rope I've been testing this with I think is Sta Set. It's pretty slippery. (It was a 5' long piece of 5/16" that was just hanging-out at the local WM that I bought for practicing knots.)

Jim
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post #8 of 27 Old 12-27-2008 Thread Starter
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Didn't see the movie.
It's a fun movie. One of Segal's last before he let himself go to pot and got all enviro-preachy. (But we'll save the discussion of Segal and his movies for OT, if anybody's so-inclined.)

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It seems you went through a lot of frustration instead of relaxing and enjoying the movie.
Frustration? Nah. It was an interesting challenge. Knots are fun . (I actually gave up pretty quickly, finished the movie, then went back, found the scene, and got back to figuring-out the knot.)

It's funny how things, and the things you find important, can change. I'd probably watched that movie two or three times, before, and never paid any heed whatsoever to that knot.

Jim
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post #9 of 27 Old 12-27-2008 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
Check with the Ashley Book of Knots. The slip knot/hitch should be in there for you to to gander and and learn to tie.
Don't have that book in my library... yet . I'll have to put it on my never-ending wish list.

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Then learn the chain hitch that is used on the cod end of nets. One pull and the Cod End opens like a zipper.
I wonder if that's similar to what I use to dress excess dock line? (What I do has two names, one of which is "monkey's tail," IIRC. Once again: Google is giving me no joy.) I've also used it, on occasion, to dress short lengths of heavy extension cord. Swedish Furling, discussed in Brion Toss' The Complete Rigger's Apprentice, employs a similar principle.

Jim
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post #10 of 27 Old 12-27-2008 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gibsoneric View Post
Try looking up a "slip clove hitch". We use it to secure fender lines to railings and lifelines. It is easy to tie, easy to untie, and pretty strong.
Yup, I use that one. It's only secure if it remains under load, so I use it sparingly. Yes: It's good for fenders when you're going to be taking them off in short order, but I wouldn't trust it in any situation where said fenders weren't going to be under observation pretty much full-time. Otherwise I prefer a clove hitch or Fisherman's Bend, either backed-up with a half-hitch. (A clove hitch, backed up with a pair of half-hitches is how I secure our dock lines to pilings. I've yet to have one loosen, much less come loose.)

Jim
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