A pragmatist, upon finding an abandoned vessel in international waters during a calm, say, and having no current mention of it in Notice to Mariners, and given some evidence (state of rigging, presence of rainwater in the bilges, an inch of birdcrap on deck) that the boat had been abandoned for some time, might simply help themselves to any salvageable gear aboard and then open the seacocks/cut the hoses.
I believe it is a duty of anyone abandoning ship when possible to sink it in order to remove it as a navigational hazard to other shipping/yachts/fishermen. The current Practical Sailor outlines just such a case: a non-sinking boat in bad conditions was sunk deliberately by its departing owner, who determined he required rescue rather than to continue sailing into a fresh round of gales.
The legalities of "harvesting" an abandoned boat at sea are unknown to me, but the world of hurt to which I would be exposing myself trying to take such a vessel under tow (unless I was at the 13 mile line of a friendly country in good weather) is deeply suspected. Basically, if you sink the thing, you do international shipping a favour, because you will not likely see profit in your actions otherwise.
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The legalities of "harvesting" an abandoned boat at sea are unknown to me, but the world of hurt to which I would be exposing myself trying to take such a vessel under tow (unless I was at the 13 mile line of a friendly country in good weather) is deeply suspected...
Thanks for the post. What world of hurt do you mean?
Thanks for the post. What world of hurt do you mean?
The authorities in many countries would be asking how you came upon the vessel in tow, and what happened to the captain and crew of said vessel, and in many cases could hold you responsible for their disappearance until proven otherwise... That's the world of hurt I think Valiente is trying to avoid.
__________________
Sailingdog Telstar 28
New England
You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.
—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)
If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this POST.
Bene-
"Has anyone ever heard of it working out financially, to support going out and rescuing a derelict sailboat?"
I think the phrase is "economically unfeasible". Because first you have to actually LOCATE a drifting boat, which could mean several days of chartering a light aircraft at perhaps a thousand dollars a day, give or take the calue of your time.
Then trying to get a tow vessel out to it--or, jumping out and boarding the vessel, in the radical assumption that your aircraft can come back and air-drop whatever you need to work the boat, on the next trip.
And somehow, before you do any of that, you'd need to ascertain the value of the vessel before you started and without having done the damage survey. Awfully speculative venture, unless you're an unemployed parachutist and machinist looking to have a fun adventure and sell the film rights. Those'd be worth more than the boat, probably.
Salvage and admiralty law are all so easily reserached now that there's an Internet. And Mel Fischer is totally irrelevant--his problems came from two very specific issues that don't apply to drifting boats. One, that the wreck might still be Spanish Crown property. Government property is never (never) "abandoned". Two, that the State of Florida had treasure trove laws in effect, and was claiming against him.
As long as your drifting boat isn't the property of some government you won't have those problems. But you'd better pick a big handsome one if you want to cover your airfare to Hawaii first!
Bene-
"Has anyone ever heard of it working out financially, to support going out and rescuing a derelict sailboat?"
I think the phrase is "economically unfeasible". Because first you have to actually LOCATE a drifting boat, which could mean several days of chartering a light aircraft at perhaps a thousand dollars a day, give or take the calue of your time.
Then trying to get a tow vessel out to it--or, jumping out and boarding the vessel, in the radical assumption that your aircraft can come back and air-drop whatever you need to work the boat, on the next trip.
And somehow, before you do any of that, you'd need to ascertain the value of the vessel before you started and without having done the damage survey. Awfully speculative venture, unless you're an unemployed parachutist and machinist looking to have a fun adventure and sell the film rights. Those'd be worth more than the boat, probably.
Salvage and admiralty law are all so easily reserached now that there's an Internet. And Mel Fischer is totally irrelevant--his problems came from two very specific issues that don't apply to drifting boats. One, that the wreck might still be Spanish Crown property. Government property is never (never) "abandoned". Two, that the State of Florida had treasure trove laws in effect, and was claiming against him.
As long as your drifting boat isn't the property of some government you won't have those problems. But you'd better pick a big handsome one if you want to cover your airfare to Hawaii first!
I was thinking of these things you mention. It would definitely take a practiced team and investment, and the rewards would be slow in coming.
You'd have to be going after only the very highest of value targets...in order to see any return.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene505
I was thinking of these things you mention. It would definitely take a practiced team and investment, and the rewards would be slow in coming.
__________________
Sailingdog Telstar 28
New England
You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.
—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)
If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this POST.
Thanks for the post. What world of hurt do you mean?
The legal wrangling that would commence the moment you tied up and tried to claim costs of the rescue or salvor's rights. As has been pointed out, even if you win, you likely lose as the lawyers win.
Most of the sailboats likely to come across a derelict yacht would not have the size advantage, engine power, spare crew or salvage expertise required to take it safely under tow. A variety of factors would have to be in play for that to be the case, primarily a well-crewed yacht towing a short distance in calm conditions. As is usually the case, the swell alone is enough to discourage even a close approach.
If it is safe to board a derelict yacht in the middle of the ocean, help yourself (it's derelict, after all) and sink the poor thing, rather than have it acting exactly as a multi-ton container would (a mastless plastic boat will show poorly on a lot of radars and hitting it on a windy, cloudy, moonless night...even with a good visual watch...would be a real hazard).
Those are my instincts. Nine times out of 10, you would probably just notify the nearest land-based coast guard or civil authorities with a position fix and observations of drift, wind, etc. so that someone with a bigger ship could throw a line on it or put a shell through it.
The exceptions to this might be if a derelict came to rest inside a lagoon or beached/stranded on an uninhabited atoll somewhere, but that's again a case for the civil authorities.
The authorities in many countries would be asking how you came upon the vessel in tow, and what happened to the captain and crew of said vessel, and in many cases could hold you responsible for their disappearance until proven otherwise... That's the world of hurt I think Valiente is trying to avoid.
Well, I hadn't even got to the "what if they assume you are a murderous pirate cleverly disguised as a cruising family" issue, but yes, that is yet another serious consideration.
If I was able to board a derelict yacht (big if), and I did find salvageable goods (bigger if), if I came across personal papers or keepsakes (assuming it was even safe to hang around aboard a possibly sinking boat or a closing weather window), I would likely anonymously mail such items to the owners (if I could find out if they were alive!) with the information that I had scuttled their boat.
A small comfort to some, perhaps, but they wouldn't waste time looking for it.
Some might find this course cold or exploitive. Too bad. My first responsibility is to the safety of my crew and to other mariners. A derelict yacht is a hazard, and it's not my job to take it under tow except in very specific circumstances.
If I find crew aboard, the whole situation changes, as it is a rescue, not a salvage.
