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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #11  
Old 09-20-2002
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Older Full Keel boats

Dennis, there are a lot of other talking fish in the sea. A lot of different experiences on different boats in every condition known to man. Keep reading. Even on the internet there''s unlimited resources of info on different boats. If you want info on a Tartan, join the Tartan sailnet E-mail list. these people are tits when it comes to knowledge about the boat. Or email me about basic questions. I''m still rebuilding mine.

If you''re interested in 60''s boats. The Pearsons and Albergs are proven cruising boats.

I could have afforded a newer boat than a 25 year old Tartan, but I would end up upgrading the thing anyhow. It''s easier on the pocketbook to upgrade a $10k boat than a $25k boat. For a fraction of the cost, I''ll have a nice boat with new equipment than a newer boat with older equipment. Does it matter if the electrical system is 20 years or 25-30 years old? I don''t think so. It''s all going to get replaced anyhow.

John Vigor wrote several good books.


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  #12  
Old 09-21-2002
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Seems like the perfect place to seek some last minute input and get some discussion underway on the last point in the message that began this thread, trailerability, at least enough to easily store a boat in the backyard in the winter.

I had a Mystic 20 catboat, which turned out to be a great boat for a beginning sailor in the shallow bays of Long Island. I''ve been wanting to stretch my cruising range and increase the comfort level in rough conditions, so have decided on a Stone Horse, a 1930s Sam Crocker design that has a full keel but only 3''6" draft. There were just 150 of these built between the late 60s and mid-80s, and were designed for Buzzards Bay chop and single-handing.

The hull is fiberglass cored with Airex, and the wood mast is stepped on the keel. The sailplan has two foresails, a furling jib and self-tending staysail. Another distinctive feature is the raised deck. The one I''m planning to buy is on a customized trailer in the seller''s yard. But at 23'' LOD (not counting the bowsprit and boomkin which, unfortunately, the marina does count...) and with 2000 pounds ballast, this isn''t a boat for quick launching and retrieval. The trailer basically serves to save on winter storage costs.

I like everything about this boat, from the tight but efficient and homey cabin layout to the spacious and close-to-the-water cockpit. But I''ve also considered the O''Day 22, an eminently trailerable boat with a swing keel and an immediate, thrilling acceleration in gusts that is very different from the steady soldiering of the full keel Stone Horse. And the Pearsons and Tartans. These alternates are all widely available at less than half the cost of the Stone Horse (prices I''ve seen range from $12000 to $19000).

But the Stone Horse is what grabs me, and that''s the clincher for me. Traditional lines, tanbark sails, and lots of brightwork. As challenging, tiring and time consuming as varnish work can be, its also deeply satisfying.

The 1971 Stone Horse I''m considering was repowered and had new sails and standing rigging made about 5 years ago.

It''s not too late for me to change my mind. The beginning inquiry was for a boat that could be kept in the backyard on a trailer and cruised single handed in the Caribbean. Very different waters and conditions than the Northeast. But if you were looking for a shoal draft boat that could be easily single handed and comfortably cruised in shallow bays and along the NE coast, what would you choose?


Cheers,
Bruce

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Old 09-21-2002
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I agree..The Stone Horse is a nice looking boat.I recently viewed a page with an all wood Herreshof(sp).I love this type of boat.Not that I have ever sailed one.Its just that "something" about wood,it has a character all its own.(IMHO)..:-)


Jerry

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Old 09-21-2002
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Oh..One more idea.
I am trying to keep a simple approach to choosing a good/sound/vessel/ in the 20-25K range with another 5k or so to fix her up if needed.
I see lots of retired race boats(J''s) for sale,some with trailers even.J24,J27,J29.
The only thing that bugs me is the fin keel.
Its rather deep and might get intimate with a coral reef.
Take a look at the insides of a J boat..roomy,wide,not fancy,but with a little work maybe my kind of "minimalist Carribean cruiser".But then the Tartans look really good and a little more practical than the J''s,so I will keep looking.

Appreciate all the input,
Jerry
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Old 09-22-2002
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Good morning Bruce,
I don''t usualy do this but since I think you asked me directly Let me say the list goes on and on .but here are a few;
Cal is a nice boat. somthing like the 27 mk.II.Or the 28.
Catalina 27 or the 30
The Pearson 26,28 or 30.
Bristol 30
Alberg 30
I own an Endeavour 32 and I like her very much.She sails pretty good shes well built and the interior is very nice. 20 to 30k.
Irwin 30
Islander 30
AsI said the list goes on for miles.Do your research.don''t take any one one person''s opinion to seriously.When you ask people whats good you pretty much get advice on what THEY like and not a well rounded opinion.
Good luck,

Dennis
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Old 09-22-2002
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Bruce: I would suggest that you "tune" into
www.Latitude38.com. Look under their listings for used boats. It is the best I''ve seen for getting a good idea what is out there and can be bought direct from the owner. It will cost about 3k-4k to ship it to the East Coast. Myself if I did not have the boat I had and wanted a small boat for 1 or 2 and budget was part of it and sailing the other part I''d look for a Coronado 25 or 27, in the centerboard model. with the board up your under 3'' of draft. They were very well built boats and used you can find them on either coast for under 5K.
Gene S/V Teacher''s Pet III
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Old 09-22-2002
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...You can also subscribe to the publication''Soundings'',search the web and since winter is coming, I strongly suggest going to boatyards in the off season to study underbodys. You may want to think about purchasing ''Mauchs Sailboat Guides''at wwwmauchs.comm.There are three volumes and they are invaluable when looking for a boat.They show a side view and floor plan at least.They usually also show the underbody and sail plan and at least one or two paragraphs describing the boat.They will also have a list of specs.
All this is wnat I did and for the money, I think I did very well.
Doing enough homework, you will end up with the boat YOU want and not somone elses.

Dennis
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Old 09-23-2002
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Hi, Dennis (windship).

Your mention of Mauch''s Sailboat Guide had me checking their web site. Thanks for posting the idea (just one more of the billion things yet to learn).

I noted from their table of contents that several boats I thought of as candidates for myself were not listed, and I also noted that the specs they list for the sample page were very limited.

You mention that the guides are invaluable and I''m just wondering if you could kindly expand upon that a bit. I would consider purchasing them on your recommendation if you care to tell more.

Anyone else''s comments on this or equivalent guides are welcome.

Thanks,
Duane
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Old 09-23-2002
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Good Morning Duane,
Correct, all the boats that have been built are not in these three volumes.There''s obvioisly to many boats out there to fit into three books(but give it time).
Although you have not found the boats that you are considering,these books might broaden your considerations;they will at least without a dought enhance your knowlage on the subject.You might begin considering a boat that before you hadn''t.
What are the boats you are thinking about?
Yes, when given all the info that can be had,these specs might seem limited however,when putting to use the math formulas derived for use in the marine industry,these specs are pretty much all you will need.You can find these formulas in different places and from different people;here for instance.You can also find them in the book ''The Sailing Dictionary''that can be purchased at West Marine or most book stores.
What specs do you mean?
It seems to me that the imformation that we seek should be a balance from sorces like sailnet and also from books.

Dennis
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Old 09-23-2002
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Dennis,

Thanks for the quick reply. To answer your questions, two recent considerations were the Brewer 38 and Wauquiez Hood 38, which I did not find in the list.

The sample page listed "sail area", but not the I, J, P, and E dimensions. I have found that many of the brochures I collected in just the past 2 years will list "sail area" with no regard to the accepted formula; they include the largest genoa they carry, for example. It was my understanding that you really should not apply the formula that way. Of course, you make a good point that I could try to obtain any missing numbers via another source.

BTW, I took all the formulae from Nigel Calder''s Cruising Handbook and put them into a spreadsheet so that I could list boats of interest and have the "numbers" calculated automatically. It doesn''t mean I''m going to pick a superior boat, but it was a fun exercise.

Sounds like I should consider getting the Sailboat Guides anyway, since you say there is a lot of good info in them.

Thanks again,
Duane
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