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  #11  
Old 02-02-2009
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
I will leave the Hanse to the end..I sailed one last year, same boat, different keel...It was one of my favorite too.

Beneteau...These are really good boats, that sail well, probably the best of all productions. I like them a lot, and it's true, quality has come downhill since the last decade..but most mass production boats have too...
Beneteau doesn't care, they have thousands of conquered customers. Right now, between the Catalina, Hunter, Jeanneau, Bavaria and Beneteau, I prefer the Beneteau..and would be able to accept the sacrifice of the weird interior, because the boats really sail good. And me?? I want a sailboat.

The Beneteau interiors are what we call American interiors, and you guys call them Euro interiors..

Truth is no one wants them, including my friend, the dealer back home, that said: Oh God..that's not going to help, when he saw them in 2007..

Inside..it's weird, cheap, light, and what not, but it's a trend...it's modern, and at anchor, in coastal cruising is a good option...

The Beneteau uses good masts (Charleston Spar - Sparcraft), which is the mast the Hanse uses. Thedeck gear is good, and then in the first series, the boats are a dream to sail...and I am happy the obsolete Farr designs are gone..

Still sail one and you will see what a great boat thye are.

Beneteau are coastal sailing boats, with more focus on the sailing than the liveaboard features.

Jeanneau..it's like a Beneteau, but cheaper, altough I admit the little Sun fast they showed this year is a fresh of clean air..In the previous years, the Sun fast was just a Sun odissey with a better keel and a fractional rig...

Now it's a completely new boat..nice boat indeed..twin rudder, and all...and go fast paint schemes..even anchored the boat looks fast..let's see how it does...I would gladly have one...but thye are too small...

I don't care much for the DS series, and the Performance is a little disappointing...I have a friend that bought a 49 preformance, and is very disapointed, with the lack of it, and now can't return it.

The boat's have some good features and room and are perfect along side the catalinas, beneteau Hunter etc. for near coastal, and weekends.

Last edited by Giulietta; 02-03-2009 at 12:04 AM.
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  #12  
Old 02-03-2009
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Now, the Hanse..Jim..if you remember, I took you there, and even before we went up, I told you you would like it, and it was the best boat there.

I know them well, and if you remember well, my crazy neighbour, re-did the interior of his...remember a 371?? altough his was the 2005 model...I admit I like it a little more than the new one..

In my eyes, the comings are really ugly, fat and disporpotional, and as the boat size increases, its getts better...that makes the boat look like its bow heavy..Which they are by the way..so carefull on keel choice..

It's hard to see, unless you go on the boat and sail and look at it from the outside...the cabin continues almost staright into the top of the coamings, and makes the boat look like a hunchback...or like a bath tub..reminds me of those weird Swedish designs of the 70's...

The Hanse is by far the best buy / boat (given the conditions), at the show, and the one I would buy of all productiosn..BUT...

Inside, it's "Seher Deutsch", clean, square, well built, but uses a lot of Ikea material (really..the hinges etc, are not maritime material)..which is OK..once it rusts, just go to the Home depot and get new for a dollar a dozen.

The wood on the floor inside is really bad, and the keel they had on the boat..is a sales gimmick...the torpedo sells !!

They put a torpedo on a fat wide keel...2 steps forward..one back

They have a much better keel, without the torpedoe that sails better, and they also have (at leats in Europe) a better rudder. The other keel i refer too is pear shapped and has the lead on the bottom aft, but the majority is behind the training edge, which in my opinion balances the boat much better...

Hanse has small deck gear, not because it is poor or badly designed, (as you guys in the US believe..if a boat has small whinches its bad), but because the gear was designed to be less load demanding...and hence the boat saves weight in whinches etc..to me a good sign, not a bad one...

I really like the self tacking jib, whose sheet is fed up into the mast saving the complicated booms (a la Hoyt), and the go and return of lines.. Simple clean efficient..after all its Deutsch...I wouldn't want a self tacking, but were I a weeken one man show..bet your hindend I would..besides, the boat can have another sail, regular size and not selftacking as the gear for a normal sail comes from the factory..

Another weakness the boat has is the water exits for bildges etc.., they are near the deck..the one I sailed allowed water in when sailing.

I don't particularly care for the embeded hatches, looks good, but no thanks, (Dehler went that way too),

Other than that..It's my favorite there..

Now get this..Hanse uses the same profile of mast that I use on my boat.. My mast is a Sparcraft performance series, and hanse uses the same Performance mast, but the standard, not the custom version.

The mast is probably one of the best in the market, as far as Aluminium masts go..I swear.

Now..my choices..from that sallon

All out racing - Open 6.50 (what else?)
IOD racing - Melges
Coastal and Friendly races - Jeanneau Sunfast
Cruising with the family in the Summer - Hanse
Dinghy - didn't seeone I liked....(and I hate the SB3)
Visiting Sway in the US...TAP AIR PORTUGAL!!!

There were a few dinghies there, but I was too busy buying sails, and cool things..

If I can be of any assistance, please don't hesitate

Alex

Last edited by Giulietta; 02-03-2009 at 12:49 AM.
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2009
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Alex

How plain was the interior if you will for the SF3200? and does it look like it would be sailible by 2 or single handed as it is advertised for? Also, the designer now owns one for himself, so he must like it. This boat is supposidly the pet project for the pres of Jeanneau in France, hence the look of a V60 or half of one per say. US Jeanneau Pres has had it up to 18 knots, and it has done well in some single/doublehanded off shore races, including a 1D class in the transquandra.

Looks interesting for myself for local stuff. Not sure if spouse will like it tho, but she is getting more and more thinking it might work.

Marty
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  #14  
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Marty

It's a prety nice boat, and anyone that has a little expereince can sail it pretty well. It has boom end sheet, and the genao winches are near by.

To help sales and make the boat look mean, thay installed 2 rudders with 2 tillers..I wouldn't..not in a boat thys small..but makes it look racey..

Now..note, it's a boat without lazy bags or furlers..so you need a little experience or help with regards to getting the sails down...if you are alone. But he boat is small so you should do OK.

2 can handle it very well, and the inside is quite spartan, and rude..the boat only has 2 aft cabins, quite low roof, parallel sallon, and a minimal head in the bow...

I think you would love it for what you want...

I used to like Jeanneau a lot..then in 2000, lost the love..looks like they have decided to bring back the boat..if only they stopped the Odiseey series, and made it better sailing

Last edited by Giulietta; 02-03-2009 at 01:38 AM.
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  #15  
Old 02-03-2009
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Most importantly Alex, what did you think of the Rum I sent home with Tim and Julie?
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  #16  
Old 02-03-2009
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What is a lazy bag and a furler?

I would have prefered a BIG wheel personally, but I have heard the twin tillers are not that bad to work with. The twin rudders help it hang on to higher winds from what I have heard. I knew the interior was sparten, but what do you mean by "rude"? I do not expect this to be like my Arcadia, ie 85 Tony Castro Jeanneau, but it should be faster. The cabin was short? Local dealer was on it, and he is 6'2" or about 2M and said he had head room...............I would assume the head has minimum needs, toilet and a sink, don't think it has HW which would be nice.........

I figure it should not be an issue for 3-5 days, with stops at marina's or a B&B or equal at the marina to keep spouse happy. I am not too happy with the newest Odisyees either, the DS version, yee gads, remind me of an 80's bayliner buccuneer!
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Last edited by blt2ski; 02-03-2009 at 01:58 AM.
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  #17  
Old 02-03-2009
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not much headroom

I'm 5'10" and my head was brushing the ceiling on the SF3200, so barely standing headroom, depending on your height.
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  #18  
Old 02-03-2009
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
Most importantly Alex, what did you think of the Rum I sent home with Tim and Julie?

Ahhh thank you Chuck! Sorry I forgot to thank you!. sorry.

Rum and Coke zero!! very good

Thank you!!
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  #19  
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
What is a lazy bag and a furler?

I would have prefered a BIG wheel personally, but I have heard the twin tillers are not that bad to work with. The twin rudders help it hang on to higher winds from what I have heard. I knew the interior was sparten, but what do you mean by "rude"? I do not expect this to be like my Arcadia, ie 85 Tony Castro Jeanneau, but it should be faster. The cabin was short? Local dealer was on it, and he is 6'2" or about 2M and said he had head room...............I would assume the head has minimum needs, toilet and a sink, don't think it has HW which would be nice.........

I figure it should not be an issue for 3-5 days, with stops at marina's or a B&B or equal at the marina to keep spouse happy. I am not too happy with the newest Odisyees either, the DS version, yee gads, remind me of an 80's bayliner buccuneer!
Marty the lazy bag is that bag I have on my boom, that collects the main when you drop it..the furler is the roller at the bow to roll the genoa.

no..the cabin does not offend you when you walk in...it's actually quite polite...

What I meant by rude is there is no roundness or body friendly features. The furniture is sharp and staright.. the head room is quite limited.

YOu can have a water heater installed, and for up to a week is a great boat..

Like I said..I liked it

But disagree with the twin rudders...that's a sales gimmick...doesn't need it, really..it's not that beamy...go fast stripes..
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Old 02-03-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giulietta View Post

Hunter...well, ....it's hard to explain..did'nt care for the keel attachment, and I could almost swear one of them boats had a tilted keel...!!??? maybe I need glasses. ...



The deck hardware, by Garhauer, is not my favorite, maybe strong, and reliable, but looks like it was hand made with a hammer, and nails...(one of the reasons i don't like Garhauer..it's great material, but damn heavy and ugly, altough now he's making a anodized blak series, that looks better..but..not for me..not yet).

Giulietta,

Thanks for the great write-up! I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on these production boats.

Regarding the Hunter keel being tilted, that is because it is the northern hemisphere version. They also have a southern hemisphere keel, tilted the opposite direction to take best advantage of the Coriolis Effect. ( )

I have to agree with you about the Garhauer hardware. It definitely has a sturdy look about it, but at the same time it seems a bit clunky to me.

Wouldn't it be interesting to design our own production boat? Something like this:

Beneteau/Farr Hull
Tartan "Beavertail" Lead Keel
Catalina Interior (?)
Hanse (Charleston/Sparcraft) Rig
Harken/Lewmar Hardware
Yanmar Propulsion
???
Reasonable $$$
A dream world where all this could really happen
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