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Old 02-03-2009
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Spinnaker sock.you have one?? Help my friend, please

I have this friend...he is a good guy..I need to help him, but I have no expereince with spi socks...please help me help him...

This guy, he bought a spinnaker sock, at a boat show..not important which... for his assy...because he wants to help his wife sail with it, and she gets upset with all the work it takes to douse it alone, plus the space it takes bellow decks. He collects spis..what a nut job..

His son is my son's age and wants to use the spi also. So at the boat show, my friend spoke with this really cool guy he had heard about called Gary Shaw..and decided to give it a go..besides, the guy sold it for $250, he can't sell the big ones...so what damage is there, right??

At the boat show, there was another guy with a strong european accent, selling one called ATN, but the sales man treated my friend like a moron, and proceeded to 'explain" my friend what a mast was..and what a spinnaker was..and how great a sailor /inventor he was..so my friend left him talking alone, and left..besides, the idea of a large fiberglass "bell" hanging 70 feet on top of the mast wasn't appealing. So he chose the other one..Chutescoop..he liked the fact that this one has no FG bell, and is entirely made od spinnaker nylon rip free cloth..the other one looked like a heavy nylon woven thing, and for his boat the cost was almost $800.00

Now, I know the sock is a bit short, at 48 feet Vs his 65 feet ISP, they don't make them any larger. . BUT that is good, as the lower section stays outside a little, not a problem..and my friend thinks it's better to be that way to prvent hourglasses, and to organise the lower sections better..I agree with him..

Now..he read and read, and basically looks like a straight forward thing..BUT, he wants to know if any of you guys has used one, and if you have photos.

His idea is to redirect the lines back to his cockpit. To do this he was thinking of rigging a snatch block in the front for the chute raising halyard, and another one for the down taking halyard..both locked by cam cleats at the cockpit.

Have you guys seen this??

Can you guys show or tell how you use yours??

Please? My friend appreciates

Last edited by Giulietta; 02-03-2009 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 02-03-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giulietta View Post
...Now, I know the sock is a bit short, at 48 feet Vs his 65 feet ISP, they don't make them any larger. . BUT that is good, as the lower section stays outside a little, not a problem..and my friend thinks it's better to be that way to prvent hourglasses, and to organise the lower sections better..I agree with him..
Tell your friend ( ) not to worry, I agree with him too. Our Chutescoop is about 8-10 feet shorter than our asym, and it is no problem at all.

I've never tried running the rigging aft. It is very simple to manipulate it while standing just forward of the mast. I'm sure your friend's kid can do it.
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Old 02-03-2009
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Ihave one, if you look at the pic in avatar closely, you will see the sock at the top of the spin. Not sure how well it would work trying to run the lines to the back of the cabin top. I hoist the AS in the sock, then drop the jib, pull the sock up while I am in the front, spouse is steering, then tie off the sock lines and head to the back hoping sheryl has not gone too crazy trying to pull in the AS sheet lines. I then proceed to trim tack and sheets as needed.

Hope this helps to a degree. My sock does go the full length of the chute.

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Marty..can you show a photo of how it looks above once the spi is out..

My friend is a trim freak, and uses the halyard a lot..he is affraid the space taken by the gathered sock on top, may separate the spi too much from the mast..

I know he already proceeded and remade the dyneema loops on top to shorten them, he made them half the size. and replaced the swivel blocks to new ones rated 2.500 Lbs..the original ones were only 1.400lbs, and he was affraid they couldn't take the load.

If you guys have photos and could spare your opinions he would really appreciate.

Thanks
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Old 02-03-2009
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I have what Mr. Shaw told me during the Annapolis Boat Show, is an antique Chutescoop that I've used exactly 2 times thus far, so take my experience for what it is worth. Also my spin is a light air sail, so dousing was pretty simple in my case. We are just learning the ropes on this boat, so we doused to gybe which is recommended as the sure fire way to avoid problems. That being the case I've been able to raise a lower the sock several times despite only deploying the sail on two occasions. When I get the boat set up the way I want it, we'll try gybing the sail forward of the stay and see how it goes.

I don't know about the newer units, but the control lines on mine appear to be a continous loop, so I'm not sure about running them aft. Mine are rigged through a block which is attached to a leg of the pulpit to both keep the lines from getting away from you, and so that pulling up from the deck pulls the scoop down. I think that is a good idea, and is most likely suggested in the documentation that came with the scoop. I know the newer unit runs the control lines inside a pocket that separates them from the sail. With my set up, its way easy to get a control line wrapped around the sail inside the chute if you are not careful, which is my biggest headache.

All in all, my experience has thus far been as you say, a straight forward affair. Clip in the tack, clip the control line block to the pulpit, lead , fit the collar around the stay, run the sheets and tack line aft, hoist the "sausage", then pull the control line to let the sail fly. For dousing, all we've had to do was pull "up" on the control line and the scoop collapsed the sail with no problem. If there were more wind and simply pulling the control line was too much effort, you could try turning so the main blocks the aysm so there was less pressure, but we haven't had to take any extra effort so far.

Since my scoop has some wear and tear and the new version has some signficant improvements over what I have, I'm actually thinking about buying a replacement.

Hope that helps.

Bill Boggs
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Bill, thnak you..appreciate your input..I mean my friend does...

The lines being a loop is not an issue, that's why I planned on using snatch blocks.

I was looking at the system, and it looks really easy. the issue is not raising, but lower the sail. the spinnaker is really big..1500sqft.

So the idea I had to lower the sail is release the tack, or the clew, and while flogging bring it down in the direction of the bow..somehow, bringing it along the mast seems bad idea..if the wind is not too strong , the normal (we call it shadow drop, I don't know what you call it in English), behind main may work well..BUT.. sometimes, on my boat you need care, as this may cause some issues with the shrouds, being so fat appart and the beam...

Hence the lines coming aft. The cam cleats are open feed also.
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Originally Posted by Giulietta View Post
My friend is a trim freak, and uses the halyard a lot..he is affraid the space taken by the gathered sock on top, may separate the spi too much from the mast..
That has been a bit of an issue with us, too. "Full hoist" brings us about one foot short of the masthead sheave -- definitely not ideal. These are not the best photos, but maybe you can get something from them:



It is not as bad as shown in this photo (we were not fully hoisted here) but it does show the problem:

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Thanks John..I see exactly what I was affraid would happen..

This spinnaker I have in mind using thios sock, was cut a bit long already, so that extra lenght is a limiting factor..BUT...its only so that other people can use the sail on their own, they will be happy just to use it...they don't really care about performance...the spi is an VMG so it may be a problem...

I'll shorten the head piece even further...
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I would not worry too much about the extra foot of hoist. If you are racing, take the sock off. With a full race crew, spins are easier to handle without the sock. Short-handed is where the socks become nice to have and in these cases you have some trade-offs -- absolute full hoist might be one of them. In the case of your friend, it sounds like the sock is too short in anything but light air. One of the main advantages to a sock is that you can do the hoist, then make sure everything is hooked up correctly and run fair. Then at your leisure raise the sock and set the sail. If the sock is too short, then after you have raised the sail you now have yards and yards of sail blowing wildly in the breeze. Sure you can hold it on the foredeck - but then you don't have hands to do anything else. I don't see any reason to run the sock lines back to the cockpit. The sock up or down is better done from the foredeck. Even if you are single handed, you will have time to set everything up cleanly and get the sheets (and guys) ready before you lift the sock. Then lift the sock from the foredeck and run back to the cockpit and set the sheet. There are a couple hints that really help with the sock. They are not foul proof. If you don't already have a dark line running up the sock, you should put one on with dark markers (take the sail out when you do this so you don't get it marked too). I raise the sail with the sheets and guys not connected. When the sail is all the way up, I look up the dark line and take out any twists in the sock, then hook up the sheets and guys. The better socks, such as ATN, will foul less. That fiberglass ring helps. If you don't make sure the sock is not twisted, the sock will come partially up and get stuck, or will have difficulty being pulled down.

Paul L
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Alex,

Here are three shots, behind, beside and ahead of David - dejodenda as I passed him in a race last october. The pic beside my name is a croped pic of the beside shot. My spin is not up all the way either, once I saw the pic, I will a little pissed at the two monkeys hanging their feet over the side! ie my 22 yr old sons!

Reality is, "IF" you get a full hoist, you should have no less than 6" or 10cm or so more distance from the sock vs without a sock to the head of the spin. "WHERE" one will have issues, is that the sock does bunch up the head some, so you lose some area that is shown up at the top while sailing, and you will not get a full shoulder of SA up there. BUT< if your friend is sailing with the wife and son, this slight reduction of SA will not hurt performance much. For my boat, maybe a 10th of a knot at best. I lose more with a 600# AS vs a sull size at 750-800# max on my boat per the original brochure. I have to admit, I did buy on purpose a sail that was about 80-85% of max, as I had not flown a chute before buying this one, and figured a slightly too small chute to learn with was better than a too big a one, and if I really got into racing, then I would buy the 780# sym spin that would normally be on the boat. These pics I am doing upper 7 to low 8knots, not bad for a 24.5' WL boat with a theoretical hull speed of 6.6-6.7 knots!





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