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post #11 of 36 Old 02-20-2009
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Marty, do you clip in with one hook or two?

There should be no problem getting past shrouds or anything else. One hook (one snatch hook on your tether) is no loner considered good safety, the modern trend is to ahve two hooks, one short, one a bit longer, so that you use the short tether, and then snap the longer one past an obstruction in order to move past it without needing to unclip. (The obstruction typically being the mast.)

Any safety gear is a PITA, but so is going overboard at sea.
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post #12 of 36 Old 02-20-2009
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HS,

I have to admit, right now I have "nothing"! Not a good thing in some of the conditions we have been in here in puget sound. I have a padeye I need to install at the bow for up that way. But now need to figure out the best way to run the lines them selves then get some safety lines that will work. I have some older 5/8"? brown 3 twist lines that came with the boat. Single clip. Not sure I would trust them. But then, considering what I have used hanging off of cliffs locally, they are not that bad other than age!

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post #13 of 36 Old 02-20-2009
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Marty, anything probably beats nothing. But I'd pass on the twisted line, it is too easy for that to act as a roller and roll your foot off the deck and you with it. The preferred material is tubular nylon webbing--not flat, and not poly. It is readily available, discounted, from webbing suppliers on eBay and other sources. That's also a handy material for many other purposes, so don't be afraid to buy some excess.

The 3-twist...is best for strapping packs on mules, or dock lines.

If your old single-clip line (mines form the same vintage but I've added a carabiner on a second line) is just a plain spring-loaded clip--be careful. It is oddly and easily possible to take a single spring clip and UNHOOK it from the line, just by rotating it against the line.

I found that out when I used them for diving tethers, and couldn't figure out how the tethers were getting unhooked all by themselves. The real one on my harness has one of those safety bars across the middle of it, you need to squeeze it before the main hook can open.
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post #14 of 36 Old 02-20-2009
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BTW, when you're putting the webbing jacklines in place, put about a half-dozen twists into it. This will prevent it from making noise...

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post #15 of 36 Old 02-21-2009
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HS,

The 3 strand lines are for from the harness to the boat jack lines. I could see where the clips could come lose under certain circumstances. Probably better than nothing, but not perfect by todays stds by any means.

I would not use a round line/rope or equal for the actual jackline either, I know to use a webbing of some sort. Going forward from the cockpit is usually easier to walk along the side deck, so the obstruction would be the shrouds in my case. So I can see the use of a 2 biener/equal for the boat end of that part.

I would like to figure something out to a degree, sooner than later, as when it is just my wife and I, I am the one forward. Last Oct, in some 30-40 knot stuff and 3-5' waves, my 22 yr old son was forward, I did not find out until later that his footing was tenuous at best. So something needs to be done. At 40-45F water temps yr around here, you do not have a lot of time before you the MOB is too cold to function.

Vega, where are the jack lines attached on the rear of the cabin? It appears like it is to the teak hand hold/rails. Not the best place from my understanding.

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post #16 of 36 Old 02-21-2009
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I am not seeing the usage of webbing as a jack line at all. Most of the caribeners (sp) / hooks that are attached to tethers are designed specifically to go around lines. Staying secure and Maintaining positive movement are both equal parts of the equation. Round line reduces chafing of the line (hooks can more easily get snagged into webbing) and provides a smooth movement of getting where you want to go.

The later is important - as being able to move quickly is of utmost importance. When you have genoa sheet flogging around and you have someone on the foredeck that can not control it - they need to be able to move FAST to get out of harms way ( Or think of any other numerous situations). I have been in positions where not having freedom of movement made a situation worse.

Secondly, most of that webbing once chafed, cut, fraying etc have a tendancy to part quickly under even minor shock loads. Then you have the UV issue - as I am not aware of many webbings that are UV protected throughout the webbing (the coating maybe but rarely lasts long) and UV damage to webbing is a truly hidden danger and often goes ignored. I can't tell you the number of times I have had webbing fail during my 4X4 expeditions due to UV damaged tow strap webbing or a slight fray suddenly getting loaded up and parting)....

The whole rolling under the foot - the jack line should be fairly taunt and minimal amount of play. There are many other things underfoot on deck that will more likely get in the way of footing.

BTW I echo Marty's comment on not attaching it to the teak hand rails. Those are secured merely by small diameter wood screws and very easily pulled out. Eyebolts with backing plates or attach to cleats, or if you have room to add one more clutch on the cabin top - secure it there (not cam cleats - clutchs like spinlock XTs etc)...

On HG - I use the same lines used for the halyards as it readily available and there is very minimumal stretch. We only run them from the pulpit to the forward head of the mast because routing full length would get in the way of all the other lines, shrouds etc (altyhough I think I will run them now to the cockpit as I didn't think about using a clutch before...)....

At any rate just my random thoughts on the subject...Anything is better than nothing especi8ally working the foredeck where you really need to be secured via centerline of the boat....

-- Jody

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post #17 of 36 Old 02-21-2009
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For all your reservations about using webbing for jacklines due to UV exposure, can we see the tethers you use? UV exposure is UV exposure and does not matter whether is jacklines or tether. Most jackline use Polyester Webbing. Polyester webbing has 2 to 3 times the UV Resistance that nylon webbing has. This is why most jacklines I have seen are Polyester.

There is a lot to be said about NOT having a round line rolling underfoot on wet pitching side deck!

UV resistance is Important but lets think about this a little compared to standing rigging. Standing rigging is exposed 24/7/365 how long does it last?
Jacklines for the average sailor maybe used one a week while racing. Just how much exposure do they really get, unless you leave them rigged all the time.

I have a pair of 10 year old web jacklines that I take with me on every delivery I make. Many times new boat owner don't know what jacklines are or I come to boats where jacklines were to short. Anyway, they are just as strong and in good shape today as they were with I bought them 10 years ago.


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Last edited by bubb2; 02-21-2009 at 05:15 AM.
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post #18 of 36 Old 02-21-2009
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I bought my jack lines at a climbing store 1 inch tube webbing, total cost $22 and I plan to replace it yearly. If its good enough for the militery its good enough for me.

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post #19 of 36 Old 02-21-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
HS,


Vega, where are the jack lines attached on the rear of the cabin? It appears like it is to the teak hand hold/rails. Not the best place from my understanding.

Marty
They are attached to the handrails aft. Note that the handrails on my boat are of solid inch and a quarter teak, through-bolted and backed. Maybe steel or bronze padeyes would be better but this set up works for us. There are plenty of solid points for attachment of a tether and plenty of handholds to grab going forward so we never have to let go or be unclipped to move from the cockpit to the foredeck.


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post #20 of 36 Old 02-21-2009
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The best jacklines I've seen, and I'd love to equip my boat with them when I get a chance, were made of spectra line running through tubular webbing. The webbing protects the line from UV damage, chafe, and keeps it from rolling under foot. The spectra line, which was 5/16", provides the strength.

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Originally Posted by artbyjody View Post
I am not seeing the usage of webbing as a jack line at all. Most of the caribeners (sp) / hooks that are attached to tethers are designed specifically to go around lines. Staying secure and Maintaining positive movement are both equal parts of the equation. Round line reduces chafing of the line (hooks can more easily get snagged into webbing) and provides a smooth movement of getting where you want to go.

The later is important - as being able to move quickly is of utmost importance. When you have genoa sheet flogging around and you have someone on the foredeck that can not control it - they need to be able to move FAST to get out of harms way ( Or think of any other numerous situations). I have been in positions where not having freedom of movement made a situation worse.

Secondly, most of that webbing once chafed, cut, fraying etc have a tendancy to part quickly under even minor shock loads. Then you have the UV issue - as I am not aware of many webbings that are UV protected throughout the webbing (the coating maybe but rarely lasts long) and UV damage to webbing is a truly hidden danger and often goes ignored. I can't tell you the number of times I have had webbing fail during my 4X4 expeditions due to UV damaged tow strap webbing or a slight fray suddenly getting loaded up and parting)....

The whole rolling under the foot - the jack line should be fairly taunt and minimal amount of play. There are many other things underfoot on deck that will more likely get in the way of footing.

BTW I echo Marty's comment on not attaching it to the teak hand rails. Those are secured merely by small diameter wood screws and very easily pulled out. Eyebolts with backing plates or attach to cleats, or if you have room to add one more clutch on the cabin top - secure it there (not cam cleats - clutchs like spinlock XTs etc)...

On HG - I use the same lines used for the halyards as it readily available and there is very minimumal stretch. We only run them from the pulpit to the forward head of the mast because routing full length would get in the way of all the other lines, shrouds etc (altyhough I think I will run them now to the cockpit as I didn't think about using a clutch before...)....

At any rate just my random thoughts on the subject...Anything is better than nothing especi8ally working the foredeck where you really need to be secured via centerline of the boat....

Sailingdog

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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