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-   -   Shoal Keel and blue water? (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/5362-shoal-keel-blue-water.html)

acmecoyote 10-31-2002 02:56 PM

Shoal Keel and blue water?
 
OKay. I know that a shoal keel is going to be more for the shallows of a sand bar or reef. But how does a shoal keel work in blue water? Is it a good option? The boat would be sailed in coastal waters 99% of the time.

DelmarRey 10-31-2002 06:31 PM

Shoal Keel and blue water?
 
There are a few things that make the differance. A shoal keel will not point up as well as a fin or full. The other is you''ll loose ground to the lee on a reach or close haul. And depending on the ballast she''ll heal over a bit more in a heavy breese. But great for coastal waters. More choice in anchorages and passages.

JohnDrake 11-01-2002 05:29 AM

Shoal Keel and blue water?
 
Depends on the boat and several factors in its design. One solution is a Keel/Centerboard (K/CB). There are several offshore boats where this is executed well and has some advantages over a fixed shoal draft boat.

I have a Wauquiez Hood 38 K/CB, designed by Ted Hood (who certainly knew what he was doing). The K/CB design can also be found on some high end boats like Hinckley, Alden, Little Harbor (Ted Hood), Bristol''s as well as some Asian bluewater boats like the Cheoy Lee Pedrick 41.

Speaking for my boat, the Hood 38 (sisterships are the Bristol 38.8 and Little Harbor Hood 38) has a 50% ballast to displacement ratio and a angle of vanishing stability (AVS)of over 160 degrees (by my calculation...but I am no expert). Many many of these boats and her sisterships are bluewater sailed world wide and circumnavigated.

Having a keel, the boat does not need to have the board down to sail well. In fact, she will go to 30 degrees apparent w/o the board. She can outpoint a Navy 44 (I have been told) and several other racing boats with the board down. Also, I have not found her overly tender, as has been reported for some k/cb''s.

I think of the k/cb option like the variable wing geometry of an F-14 (Jeff H will have a field day here, I know, but still...) (and Jeff H helped me to select this boat, even if it would not be his personal choice, for which I am very thankful)....Going fast, whether hard on the wind or on a broad reach, the keel serves as a very efficient foil and you don''t need any more surface area..or DRAG...thus you keel the board up and zing along. At slower speeds (<3.5 knots) I put the board down to reduce leeward slippage. In a blow, having the board (800lbs) down lowers the cg and increases stability. Going to windward, you put the board down to create a greater foil. Its really quite a nice concept if you know how to use it.

Offshore, the advantages of the K/CB option, as executed on the Hood 38, are greater AVS and a shallow keel the boat cannot "trip over". You can increase, adjust or decrease your foil to suit the various conditions. The longer keel, in a K/CB, has superior tracking ability, and contributes to a well balanced helm. It CAN BE like having the best of all worlds: the tracking ability of a full keel, the pointing ablity of a deep fin and shoal draft.

Of course, all boats are compromises and I should give Jeff a break from typing and list a couple here: The Hood 38 is a heavier boat than other 38''s...the downside of this is greater sail area to handle and a greater mass of boat to manage...this was pointed out to me by JH and is absolutely true. I am lucky to still have enough strength and ability to singlehand this boat. The K/CB option means also inspecting the cable and pennant on a yearly basis. Most folks put on extra cable and cut off a few inches every yr or so, at the board.

Hope this helps.

[Note to Jeff: Have not had a chance to chat in a while, but wanted to say thanks for all and, hope you had a good summer on Synergy and let you know how much I am enjoying Invictus. I think she is a great boat, I am very pleased with all aspects of her. There is a place at the helm for you anytime. Duane...place for you and your lovely wife too]

Now I am off to stay aboard for the weekend. Bye.

frumponalo 11-04-2002 03:41 PM

Shoal Keel and blue water?
 
You can sail where ever you want with a shoal draft vessel, just be aware of her strengths and weak areas. She will not beat off a lee shore well, be warned in advance. She will get you into a shoal water pass with some ease of mind unlike a deep fin keel. As for off shore, I sail a 33'' boat with a 4''3" keel and we sail from Charlotte Harbor to Key West with no problems (112 NM from sea bouy to sea bouy). If the wind is anywhere away from a beat she will do fine, in a beat we use a very solid iron genoa with a great three bladed prop. Hell, there is a kayak race from Tampa to Key Largo, any boat can make it, the question is the crew.

molpetrus 12-13-2002 09:36 AM

Shoal Keel and blue water?
 
I own the Hood 38 with hull number 2. I''m building the Hood 38 database. Could you give the following informations:
Boat name
Home port
Hull number
Type (Mk I or II)
Building year
Owner''s surmane
Owner''s lastname
Owner''s email

and give the permission to pubmish them
on
http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/wauquiezowners/
Regards
JL

JohnDrake 12-16-2002 03:59 AM

Shoal Keel and blue water?
 
JL - you got me - Invictus

dselden 05-22-2003 11:37 AM

Shoal Keel and blue water?
 
ITHAKA
Charlottesville, VA
136
Mk I
Doug Selden and Alison Dwier-Selden
Yes, you may publish information.

I am interested in getting a copy of the owner''s manual and a source for parts. Purchased th boat last May, love it.

Doug

dselden 10-15-2003 09:36 AM

Shoal Keel and blue water?
 
I have Hood 38 Mk I #136 and am interested in putting a feathering prop on the boat. The boat has a Perkins 4-108, but i am not sure which transmission. Any and all information is appreciated. I am still looking for a copy of an owners manual Thank you.

Doug

sailingfool 10-15-2003 11:48 AM

Shoal Keel and blue water?
 
We went with a three blade feathering MaxProp several years ago and are very pleased with how the prop has worked out - worth the extrea cost versus alternatives. The people at PYI http://www.pyiinc.com/ should be able to explani fit and size.

Good luck.


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