Don Jordan and the Jordan Series Drogue

[sailingdog]

I'd also point out that a properly sized Jordan Series Drogue will limit the boat's speed to about 1-1.5 knots at best... much like a parachute sea anchor does... producing far more drag than most other "drogues" do.

[chucklesR]

As a multihull sailor that reads and makes my own decisions I'll just add my little piece.

The biggest problem on a multi in big winds is the possibility of capsizing, the last thing I want to do is be held in place for a breaking wave which is exactly what a sea anchor would do. Studies prove that, google it if you want proof, I've seen enough to say I 'know' that to be true.

The next problem is too much speed, the last thing I want is to fly off the top of a wave or spear the base of one and pole vault/bury my bow.
Anybody with google and Youtube can see video's of boats doing just that, again, no links needed.

With my windage even bare pole I can make serious speed in 40 knts of wind - and that's proven by Tony Smith (Gemini designer/builder) on his trip across the Atlantic - the boat was making 18 kts under all reefs in 35 kts of wind and 20 ft seas.
www.geminicatamarans.com - Tony's story is posted there.

Dragging a dogue, or warps etc. is the proven answer for my boat, under those conditions, on that trip.
I'll take getting pooped to spearing a breaker any day, boats designed to take it.

Like Valiente said a couple of pages ago, every thing is different every time.

ANYONE that says they have the ONE answer to fit all the variables is always lying.

Having said that, Lynette, no pics, didn't happen.
Smack, quit drooling and use your head. Add something useful to the conversation or fade out.

[sailingdog]

Originally Posted by chucklesR

Having said that, Lynette, no pics, didn't happen.
Smack, quit drooling and use your head. Add something useful to the conversation or fade out.

I don't think that any of this is actually possible.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by chucklesR

Smack, quit drooling and use your head. Add something useful to the conversation or fade out.

Who are you again?

Fine - the multi dudes want the JSD. Whatever. Just don't be so bitchy about it. For crying out loud can't you hear the eyes rolling?

Look anyone that has done some reading on current heavy weather techniques for monos comes across the para-anchor technique quite often. The people in the ad to your left have pushed it quite a bit as something that's been tested and proven. And their technique has been adopted by some of the most popular HWS books out there. So it's got some cred.

Furthermore, these people don't care so much about the techniques for multis.

So - yeah Val's exactly right...which means you and Dog are only kind of right.

I'm just saying you guys should give the chick a little air and let her hammer it out with Dog instead of spending so much time defending him (from a girl - though she seems to actually pack a punch). And if/when she gets a little uppity - just remember that Dog tends to bring that out in people...kind of like I do with you.

[sailingdog]

I'd point out that the parachute sea anchors generally only work well when deployed from the bow on older, full-keel designs, since they have less of a tendency to horse at anchor.... for the reasons described by Don Jordan... They tend to not work very well on more modern designs as a general rule.

The Pardeys even point out that the sea anchor shouldn't be deployed from the bow alone...but usually recommend using a line to hold the boat at an angle to the drogue, to prevent the boat from swinging wildly.

I'd point out that the JSD works for both multihulls and monohulls... and has been proven quite useful for both. If you actually took the time to read some of the links I've posted in this thread, you might learn something... unfortunately, that would require you learning how to read words of two syllables and greater...

[smackdaddy]

Dog - for the love of Poseidon - I've read your stuff, even the rare content with multiple syllables. Re-lax dude. You're getting all Reverend Wright on the JSD. That's all I'm saying.

You can quote stats and reports until your even bluer in the face. Then she'll quote other stats and reports that make the para-anchor shine. Then one of Chichester's friends will come a long with yet another device that is the end-all.

Val is right. So just have the conversation and quit trying to make the JSD the end-all device. More importantly, let her answer some of the other's questions if she's going to. That will be far better than you protecting us from the mean sales lady.

On the other hand, I think if you took a 300' 3/4" line and sewed in all the 34DDs that are trailing behind the "Sailing Braless" thread - you just might have something I'd buy.

[Capnblu]

I await Lynnette's replys. Wonder if her boss reads sailnet?

[Paul_L]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

I'd also point out that a properly sized Jordan Series Drogue will limit the boat's speed to about 1-1.5 knots at best... much like a parachute sea anchor does... producing far more drag than most other "drogues" do.

This might be the biggest problem with a JSD. In many cases you will want to slow the boat down for safety, mono or multi, but want to keep good steerage on. Instead of racing down big waves at 12-14kts, you want to have a good control at 5-6kts. If you use a Galerider type drogue, then that is what you will get. If you use a JSD, then you will pretty much park the boat and have a little steerage. In the complete survival strorm, this might be what you want. For most uses and most heavy weather, the slow the boat to a reasonable and safe steering speed is probably more useful.

Paul L

[sailingdog]

Paul—

I asked Don Jordan about that... he said that you weren't supposed to have to steer at all with a JSD deployed..... it was designed to give the captain and crew a chance to hunker down in the cabin and get some serious rest while it dealt with the storm. Provided the chainplates for it were mounted properly, chafe should not be a major issue, since the bridle for the JSD should go from the chainplates and run free and clear to the JSD itself. Don generally recommended having custom chainplates installed for use with the JSD.

Originally Posted by Paul_L

This might be the biggest problem with a JSD. In many cases you will want to slow the boat down for safety, mono or multi, but want to keep good steerage on. Instead of racing down big waves at 12-14kts, you want to have a good control at 5-6kts. If you use a Galerider type drogue, then that is what you will get. If you use a JSD, then you will pretty much park the boat and have a little steerage. In the complete survival strorm, this might be what you want. For most uses and most heavy weather, the slow the boat to a reasonable and safe steering speed is probably more useful.

Paul L

[Paul_L]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Paul—

I asked Don Jordan about that... he said that you weren't supposed to have to steer at all with a JSD deployed..... it was designed to give the captain and crew a chance to hunker down in the cabin and get some serious rest while it dealt with the storm. Provided the chainplates for it were mounted properly, chafe should not be a major issue, since the bridle for the JSD should go from the chainplates and run free and clear to the JSD itself. Don generally recommended having custom chainplates installed for use with the JSD.

In an extreme storm case, it makes sense what Jordan said. In the case that most people are likely to find themselves, a speed controlling drogue will most likely be more useful. If you had the space and the money, then having both on board would be the best. In my case, I'll take the tradeoff and stick with the Galerider type. It is much more likely to get used on my boat than a JSD.

Paul L