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What can you tell from specs?

4K views 38 replies 13 participants last post by  sailingdog 
#1 ·
What can you tell me about an anonymous boat by these specifications:

LOA (on deck): 26'8"
LWL (waterline): 20'5"
Displacement: 7000 lbs
Ballast: 2900 lbs
Beam: 9'10"
Sail area: 323 sq. ft.
Draft: 3'11"

I'm curious about what relatively unbiased opinions I'll get by not naming the boat in question.
 
#3 ·
From the specs you can determine the speed of the vessel, the capsize ratio.
The comfort ratio and so forth.
After you have worked up these numbers you go and view the boat for yourself and sit in it walk from one end of the cabin to the other. Walk around the deck and if the boat is in the water, you get a feel of how the boat moves.
But it is still on how your own feelings are about that particular vessel.
 
#5 ·
It sounds like a beamy full keel, shoal draft, heavy displacement boat...heavier and beamier than a Cape Dory 26... probably very slow...
 
#6 ·
My unbiased and relatively inexperienced opinion would be; Heavy for its size, too beamy for its size, underpowered for its weight.

I can only base this on a boat I had of simular LOA and LWL. Our Displacement was half, ballast was half, beam was 2 foot less, sail area was equal and draft was 1.7 foot more., it was a very quick boat and a blast to sail
 
#8 · (Edited)
Running the Numbers

I took the opportunity to run the numbers and this is what I get:

DSP to Length = 368 (200-300 is "cruising")

<O:p
Sail Area to DSP Ratio = 14.2 (Most boats are between 16-18)
<O:p
Hull Speed = 6.05 kts

<O:pVelocity Ratio = 1.05 (under powered is less than 1)

LOA to Beam = 2.72 ("fine" is 3.5-4)

Capsize Risk = 1.99 (over 2 cannot compete in ocean races)

Comfort Ratio = 22.09 (This is in the range of racers, cruisers are 60+)<O:p

The LOA/Beam ratio indicated a little "tubbiness", but probably is this way to accommodate an interior. To get a "fine" hull, you would need to decrease beam by a foot or more which would probably "loose" the cabin. Where you are getting killed is the relatively small rig (small sail area) in relationship to the displacement. This is going to be a slow boat. The capsize risk and comfort ratios are marginal again, due to the high DSP to length ratio and smaller hull form (length and DSP). So how did I do? What boat is this? A Pacific Seacraft?

<O:pValiente, can you give me your racing boat's data for comparison?
 
#9 ·
My initial thought were along the lines of a Bruce Roberts Spray 27, or Tom Thumb 26, maybe even a catboat. But most of them would come in with longer waterlines.

She must be a beamy boat (our 31' has the same beam), with longish overhangs. Possibly a double-ender, but they weren't usually so beamy.

The specs certainly don't suggest a club racer....
 
#11 ·
I don't think Pacific Seacraft ever designed a boat like this one... .most of theirs are fairly decent in terms of performance and numbers...this one is pretty whacked.
 
#12 ·
You know, in keeping the name secret, the boat is either going to be something really good or really bad. The relatively small rig had me going the Crealock direction with the Danna, but I just had a thought – could it be a Catalina 27? The beam made it too wide to be a trailer sailer. Either or, the design problem here is stuffing a large enough cabin to have a head, sink, stove, and sleeping for four and still be around 27’. Something has to give. I do not think there is a true “cruiser-racer” out there in that size range. To get the performance that the ratios suggest, a boat that small needs to be more of a day sailor. Think the comparison of say, a J24 and a Catalina 25. That is why I am curious about Valiente’s dimensional data. I want to run the numbers of a racer.
 
#16 ·
my 27 footer is 27 2 long and has a lwl of 22 feet, so this boat has long over hangs, my boat also is 9 3 wide so it is wider than 83 hunter 27, with longer over hangs. it also has 60 square feet less sail then i do.

the funny part is my boat has a 3 3 draft with 3200 lbs of ballast, this one has more draft, and less ballast and thats normal. its over all weight is also 500 lbs less than mine.

i would say its a 70's or early 80 cruiser, on the lines of as hunter ( we know its not by my numbers ) catalina or oday, or columbia but i would guess not newer
 
#17 ·
I wanna play! Here are the specs of the boat we currently have in escrow, awaiting survey and sea trial.

(No cheating CD!)
LOA- 41'10
LWL- 34'7
Beam- 12'9
Displacement-21,500
Draft- 5'10
Ballast- 8,870

(I love this one, the ARE loves this one, here's hoping the surveyor loves it as well so we can be done already!)
Sail Area- 800 sq ft.
 
#18 ·
Kwalter – Just to check, do you have the dimensional data correct? To “build” you a hotter boat, I need to shave a foot off of the beam, trim out a thousand pounds, and increase the sail area by 75 sf. I don’t know what it would look like, but the ratios would like it. But seriously, the design problem here is “cramming” in that cabin to make a cruiser in 27 feet. Anything in that design parameter is goining to run into the same problems, number wise. If you’d like, send me the dimensional data of some “comp” boats and we will run the comparisons which will give you a better indication. Give me the PHRF and I can tell you your Pacific Cup rating. Unfortunately, I have a bug in my stability formulas so I can’t tell you your offshore ratings.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Here are your numbers Minsy. O.K., now tell me what “ARE” stands for. Also, you will have to eventually tell me what your boat is (so I can update my database). Length is increased in the “middle” of a boat (not the ends) so it takes a certain amount of LOA before a boat grows into its ratios. Congratulations Minsy, it’s a cruiser! (your moment of inertia is the classic number for cruisers)

DSP to Length = 232.1 (200-300 is “cruising”)
<O:pSail Area to DSP Ratio = 16.6 (Most boats are between 16-18)
<O:pHull Speed = 7.88 kts
<O:pVelocity Ratio = 1.07 (under powered is less than 1)
<O:pLOA to Beam = 3.28 (“fine” is 3.5-4)
<O:pCapsize Risk = 1.77 (over 2 cannot compete in ocean races)
<O:pComfort Ratio = 30.48 (cruisers are 60+)

<O:pScottyT, your Hunter numbers aren’t bad either albeit, you do suffer a little from the “under 30’ syndrome”. Your numbers are almost a scaled down version of my 34. I’m assuming that this is one of those Chernubli (sp) Hunters? Do you race, and if so, how well do you do?

<O:pOnce again, this is not a Catalina of any stripe (I’ve checked). Nor do I think it is a Com-Pac on the account of the beam dimension.<O:p
 
#25 ·
Kwalter,

those specs would not make my list of boats frankly. BUT, I look for a bit more race than cruise in the thing. ALA 20-1 even 22 to 24-1 SA disp ratio. Beam is not too bad. As a comparison, my 29.5' boat is 10'5", 5.5'draft, 24.5' WL, 6100 disp 2400 ballast, and 540sqft with a 155, 100% SA is 385. SA is IIRC 18-1 in 100% mode, and 24-1 in full race sail mode.

The boat you are looking at, does not sound too far out of proportion, other than lack of SA. Maybe a short mast version of something?

On the otherhand, said boat, with said specs, may work very well for your needs. Then if I had 150K or so floating around, I know of a brand building a half a open 60 in a 32' x11' frame! oooo lala! 18 knots downwind in a 32' boat! talk about fun!

Marty
 
#29 ·
The original boat was an Ericson 27 (circa 1970's). She's a sort of a hybrid between a true fin keeler and a full keel. I like the model alot, but not the specific boat I went to view yesterday. The decks were wet wet wet and the stanchions were loose loose loose. Too bad she was listed as "sail away" condition.
 
#30 ·
Kwalt,

Interesting! I'm not familiar with that model -- do you have any kind of link to photos, etc?

There is another somewhat unusual Ericson, called the "Independence 31", that you might keep an eye out for. It's more along the lines of the style boat you like, rather than the typical modern Ericson design.
 
#32 ·
There are two E27's on my dock. Whether they are the same version is another story.

If Ericksons are your first choice, there is online an Erickson owners forum and website with quite a bit of info available on it.

marty
 
#35 ·
Yup...match the Valiant 42 as well...and the Valiant is a Bob Perry designed boat IIRC. :)
Oh, you said that earlier, but I thought you were BS'n..............sorry

Specs match C42 though :)
 
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