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  #21  
Old 06-03-2009
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Originally Posted by erps View Post
It's probably more accurate to say "willing to use violence to overcome resistance to a lawful process." It generally takes two to fight.
If the police were magical angelic robots programmed to only ever act to protect somebody's natural rights, I might agree with you. However, just because a process is lawful (I don't think anybody in this thread has stated that the RCMP is breaking the law by boarding our vessels) doesn't make it right.
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  #22  
Old 06-03-2009
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Originally Posted by AdamLein View Post
If the police were magical angelic robots programmed to only ever act to protect somebody's natural rights, I might agree with you. However, just because a process is lawful (I don't think anybody in this thread has stated that the RCMP is breaking the law by boarding our vessels) doesn't make it right.
I appreciate the attempts to ensure that vessels and operators meet certain standards. While people's safety does not have a price tag, a whole whack of money has been spend searching for folks who fall overboard or capsize without pfd's.

If all you want protected is life, liberty and property (Locke's natural rights), policing would be a lot less expensive.

I would expect that you would not ask for any assistance for the enforcement agencies beyond these natural rights.

Getting awfully close to OT and politics.

Jack
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  #23  
Old 06-03-2009
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The water police in the town I live in (but not where I keep my boat) are pretty much the joke of the marina. It is all political assignment and the guys are all cops of some sort but have no clue about boating what so ever. They constantly wake and swamp other boats in the 5mph channel including the town sailboat while there are students on board learning about boating safety....

Also we have seen them up on the local harbor sandbar more times than we can count (and these are supposed to be the local experts and also the channel is very well marked)

My friend keeps a very nice MainShip 30' Trawler (roughly $120k) in one of the slips at the marina but unfortunately it is docked next to the town patrol boats and every single time they back them out of the slip they slam into his starboard hull and then put it in forward and go on their way. His hull has huge marks all over it from this.

So unless it is the Coast Guard or trained professionals I have no respect what so ever for the local water police. I could be inebriated drunk and still be more competent and safe on the water than these clowns
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  #24  
Old 06-03-2009
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Yes, one can reasonably say that they are all like that. I hate customs officers, they are stupid and self assured ass hats.
Can you enlighten as to how all black people are too, or maybe how all Muslims are? Are there any other groups you hate? You're saying a lot more about yourself with these comments than you are about the folks you slander.
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  #25  
Old 06-03-2009
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Yes, one can reasonably say that they are all like that. I hate customs officers, they are stupid and self assured ass hats.
I have do not yet met these ones. They have been courteous and professional, even the one insisted that I leave my nice Washington potatoes on the dock at Bedwell.

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  #26  
Old 06-03-2009
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While people's safety does not have a price tag, a whole whack of money has been spend searching for folks who fall overboard or capsize without pfd's.
A fair point.

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Getting awfully close to OT and politics.
Indeed.
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  #27  
Old 06-04-2009
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In 35 years on the Chesapeake Bay I have only been stopped once (Miles River) and that was for no stickers (Was on my first documented boat and didn't know MD requires stickers even if you are documented). Just got a warning and they didn't board. Was local police not coasties.
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  #28  
Old 06-04-2009
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It has been interesting reading your responses to my original post. As someone who spent many years working in law enforcement, I am seeing tactics in Canada switch from a relatively polite British style of law enforcement to an aggressive American Style. I know we are lucky to have highly educated candidates still applying for jobs as officers but I wouldn't want to be in the field nowadays.
When I am cruising, this is my home. When I am at anchor, I want my home to be as private as my condo. This is still a free country... or at least it was. Oh, by the way, these safety inspections include questions like...what do you do for a living?....where are you going?......what are you doing down there that is illegal ? and other safety issues along the same lines.
These aren't safety inspections as much as tossing the whole coast and seeing what floats to the surface. I don't see how hundreds of armed high speed inflatables roaring around all our waterways will stop a determined terrorist. All a terrorist would have to do is use a Bayliner 60, I have yet to see a Mountie board a large (read wealthy) power boat. I am sure they do, but I haven't seen or heard of it yet.
Question authority.... Protect the few rights we have left....Challenge aggressive law enforcement (carefully) wherever you find it. If a police officer violates my charter of rights, I will pursue this through the courts.
I am a fan of the RCMP, they didn't decide to start doing this. Someone from the U.S. has convinced Canada to co-ordinate law enforcment tactics on both sides of the border. This is now what we have... a U.S. led initiative to make us like them. Overkill..... just my opinion....it really doesn't mean much.. John
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  #29  
Old 06-04-2009
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Originally Posted by johnvye View Post
I know we are lucky to have highly educated candidates still applying for jobs as officers but I wouldn't want to be in the field nowadays.
I don't know about BC but here in Toronto, you don't stand a chance in hell of getting on the police force with only high school unless you know someone really high up. All of the cops in the last 15 years are at minimum college educated ( although college isn't what it was back in "my" day 20 years ago) and a large portion have a university degree in something other than policing such as psychology, sociology, law or IT. Outside of Toronto, the same standards apply to the OPP but I am not so sure about Peel Regional. We all thought that Peel got the Toronto rejects and because of that, they were always extra bitter doing stops for speeding.

I have noticed in the last 2 months a huge presence of Metro Toronto Police in Toronto Harbour. I know that they have been doing alot of work due to the 2 missing kids, both of which ended up being pulled from the water. Most of the time, they are nosing into the seawall to get coffee and then just puttering around.
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  #30  
Old 06-04-2009
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My experience with law enforcement and others has been that your attitude determines the treatment you receive in return. If you're respectful and cooperative, you'll usually be treated with respect. If you are uncooperative and let them know what you think of them, and argue about their right to do whatever they're doing, they'll be curt and more insistent. If you use force to resist them, they'll swarm you, wrestle you to the ground and handcuff you behind the back, and take you to jail.

It's about the same with any service personnel. If you go into a McDonald's and are nice to the clerk, you'll get your burger and fries. If you're not nice, you'll get your burger and fries and a dollop of phlegm. It's almost always best to be nice to service personnel.
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