Customers! Sometimes, there's just no pleasing them.

[knothead]

We were hired to install a Harken batt car system on a Manta 42'. The customer was referred to us from a local sailmaker who sold the system and was doing the sail work. Jen estimated the job at 5 hours. Now this estimate was for removing the old Tides track and installing the new system. As it turned out, we were expected to remove the full battened main and the full battened genoa and transport them to the sailmaker where we would pick up the new system.
Since the customer lives out of town we received permission to pick up the boat and bring it to our shop which is about 1/2 hour away from his marina. We did this at no charge because it is much easier and quicker for us to do this kind of work with the crane. We also did not charge to return the boat to the marina.
The work went well. The new system was installed in about four and 1/2 hours. The next morning the sails were dropped off at our shop and I asked the sailmaker if he wanted to help us to reinstall the sails. He declined so we put the sails back on the boat. This means installing all the battens, sliding all the cars on the track, resetting up the lazy jacks and reef lines and reinstalling the sail cover for the genoa. They hadn't finished with the main cover.
After returning the boat to the customers marina, Jen completed the invoice and the total came to over 14 hours what with the sail removal, transporting and reinstalling.
We cut the bill down to 8 hours and called the customer. He had a freaking cow. Not because we had taken too much time, because he admitted that he had an estimate for 8 hours from another local rigger for the same job. His beef is that the total of the invoice came out to be about twice as much as the estimate. When I pointed out that we weren't figuring in the sail removal or even bending them on again, he said that we should have known that we were going to have to do that. I pointed out that often when I work with sailmakers, they do much of that work themselves. If only to satisfy themselves that the system they sold and the sail they modified was setting properly and everything was copacetic with the installation.
After a few more harsh words and being informed that he would never use us again, I decided not to prostitute myself further and told him that I was going to be sending him an invoice for eight hours. I thought about biting the bullet and cutting the bill in half, but since he already said that he would never use us again, I figured that I may as well bill him the whole amount. Which was considerably less than what we had actually worked.

I guess that's how some people can afford 1/2 a million dollar yachts. They try to screw the little guys.

You just can't please some people.

[Faster]

Seems to go that way doesn't it?? The more money they have the harder it is to get it out of them (perhaps that's why they have it.....)

I certainly sympathize, it must be difficult running a business and having to deal with these types of you-know-whats.

Question.. are these types the majority? Hope not....

[knothead]

Originally Posted by Faster

Question.. are these types the majority? Hope not....

No. And therein lies part of the problem. The majority, the vast majority of my customers over the last 14 years are reasonable people who understand that it is difficult at best to provide spot on estimates and who will listen, understand and recognize when they are getting a good deal and professional work performed. I have gotten spoiled from dealing with good customers who research the people they hire and are willing to take a man at his word.
I will never do work for an absentee customer again without them signing off on the estimate first.

[ericread]

I have worked in the service industry for many, many years, and this story is more common than you'd think. Now my experience is in computer network security and audit, but the fundamentals are the same.

I will not begin any job, however small, without a signed scope of work. The scope of work (SOW) details my responsibilities, the customer's responsibilities, my hourly rate for extra work and the process for the customer approval for any extra work. Additionally, the SOW details the limitations of my responsibility, and when, as a result of safety issues, I will be unable to continue work without a further disclaimer of liability. If I am asked to perform work outside the signed SOW, I get a signature (and sometimes a check, depending upon the attitude of the customer) prior to proceeding.

In today's business climate, I do not believe any small business can risk performing work without a 2-3 page SOW.

Since you are dealing with potential issues of life safety, I would be extra careful to have the customer sign a disclaimer should they authorize work which I would not consider a "best practice".

Anyway, that's my $.02 on the matter...

Eric Read

[tommays]

Knot

This is a tough call what would have happened if you stoped when there was the extra work to remove things that we not in the quote ?

Or how do your NORMAL jobs react when you have to do a bunch of extra work without calling ?

[imagine2frolic]

You can please most of the people most of the time. You can't please all the people all the time.

I have learned to do the quoted work, and nothing else unless I want to do it for free. In this case the sails loft would've caught hell, but you may have jepordized your relationship with them. BEST WISHES in the next customer being a sweetheart.......i2f

[SailKing1]

I would have to agree with Tommays remarks. I understand that you went out of your way to accommodate the customer and from your OP it seems in many ways. I also can recognize that from dealing with quality customers in the past as you state you would not expect this response. You should be paid for what you asked without question. Especially after you explanation.

But, being a consultant to an industry with a large service department we incorporate guidelines that help to prevent this from occurring. When ever an estimate is given the customer is informed in writing it is subject to change. They are also informed that the job will not be started until any changes have been approved. It is very common to estimate a job and then once reviewed determined the cost will increase. The problem occurs when the one paying was not informed.

From reading your post over the years Knothead I would doubt your character is one to rip someone off. But in this instance lack of communication between parties seems to be the cause of the problem.

[zz4gta]

Originally Posted by ericread

scope

Bingo. Being a professional, you really need to get this worked out with the client (owner) and any other contractors (sailmaker) ahead of time. Then the scope signed. Owners get pissed when pro's quote them one price and when they go to pay, it magically doubles. Doesn't matter if you can justify it or not.

It once took me 1.5 hours to get a single bolt out of a transmission. Sometimes you can't see all the 'stuff' that just pops up, but I'm not going to go out of my way to wash and wax the car and expect the owner to pay for it w/o notice.

[US27inKS]

Eric is a wise man. You should have been calling this guy and explained that the bid was for ABC and now you are expected to do XYZ, and there would be an additional cost. There's one rule of thumb that we try to live by at my shop: It's easy to get cheaper. If it's not going to be the quoted price or less, give them a call.

[eolon]

As Bill Gates said to Homer Simpson: "Hey, I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks..."


Best Regards,


e

.::.