Tell EPA to Wait on Ethanol Increase - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 36 Old 07-01-2009 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,708
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
   
Exclamation Tell EPA to Wait on Ethanol Increase

Tell EPA to Wait on Ethanol Increase (from BoatUS Magazine)

The ethanol industry is asking the Environmental Protection Agency to increase ethanol in gasoline to 15% (E15), without conducting research on what this will do to your boat. It's well established that the current 10% Ethanol level (E10) causes big problems for some marine engines and fuel systems, and rushing E15 fuel to market, without research, could be a disaster.

But 54 ethanol producers can't wait. They've asked EPA to allow E15 fuel and you have until July 20 to tell the agency, No, at least not with out testing because today's boats are not designed or warranteed for fuel above E10.

Send your comments directly to the EPA at NMMA - Government Center But please act today. July 20 is the deadline.
SEMIJim is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 36 Old 07-01-2009
Senior Member
 
soulfinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 150
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Ethanol is such a bad idea, and everyone knows it. Of course, the ethanol producers want it to be government mandated! Wouldn't you like to have the market cornered on a product that is suddenly required by law?
soulfinger is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 36 Old 07-01-2009
Senior Member
 
blt2ski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,862
Thanks: 0
Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 12
   
I do nto personally like E10, one of my trucks gets 10MPG with straight gas, 8 with E10, so for every 100 miles I drive, I use 10 Gals of straight gas, and with E10, just under 11 gals of straight gas and 1.5 gals of ethanol! Makes sense does it not?!?!? NOT! This is supposed to remove our dependence on foreign oil?


oops. sorry about the political rant!

Marty

She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
blt2ski is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 36 Old 07-01-2009
Senior Member
 
midnightsailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southold, NY
Posts: 207
Thanks: 14
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Semi Jim,
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I have just finnished connecting to the NMMA website and sending my letter opposing the use of E-15. It was quick and easy and I encourage all sailors to do likewise. Rick
midnightsailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 36 Old 07-01-2009
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
The reason you get lower fuel efficiency with E10 than with the older MTBE-formulated gasoline is simple... Ethanol is an fuel oxygenator, since all alcohols have an OOH group on one end. This means that the fuel will burn slightly cleaner... but it will also reduce fuel efficiency, since you're now paying for oxygen in your fuel. Any space taken up by oxygen in the fuel is going to reduce the energy content of the fuel since, previously, the oxygen was all free... it came from the air the engine aspirated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
I do nto personally like E10, one of my trucks gets 10MPG with straight gas, 8 with E10, so for every 100 miles I drive, I use 10 Gals of straight gas, and with E10, just under 11 gals of straight gas and 1.5 gals of ethanol! Makes sense does it not?!?!? NOT! This is supposed to remove our dependence on foreign oil?


oops. sorry about the political rant!

Marty

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 36 Old 07-01-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: chesapeake bay
Posts: 1,942
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
also the fact that alky has 20 % less btu's than gas does not help either. my big question is how long will the catalytic converters last with less heat keeping them clean.

my big compliant with alky fuel is, its not green, it takes way more energy to make it. not that i am a greeny and far from it, but we have to pay for the energy that goes in to making too, and right now the .gov subsidizes it to keep it cheap
scottyt is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 36 Old 07-02-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,174
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 15
 
Recognizing that the boating community represents a tiny fraction of the carbon emission problem from gasoline combustion, it seems doubtful there would be any impact if EVERYONE wrote comments against the E increase. The reality is that we are not representative of the larger issue.

If it makes that much difference to you, why not just use E-free fuel in your engines? It is widely available.
k1vsk is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 36 Old 07-02-2009
Senior Member
 
jjablonowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bristol, Rhode Island
Posts: 390
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Alky-free gas?

From k1vsk: "why not just use E-free fuel in your engines? It is widely available."

Where?
jjablonowski is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 36 Old 07-02-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,174
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 15
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjablonowski View Post
From k1vsk: "why not just use E-free fuel in your engines? It is widely available."

Where?
Depending on your location, many gas stations may have it and certainly all av-gas sources.
k1vsk is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 36 Old 07-02-2009
Senior Member
 
pdqaltair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,559
Thanks: 1
Thanked 50 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
I suggest you consider the storage stability issues of bio-diesel - it's coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post
I got a diesel. If they put it in diesel I'll make my own fuel. diesels with run on just about anything.
But, it sucks for gas motors. Alot of people having trouble w/ it. I heard it tears up the fiberglass fuel tanks ! and hoses and such as well.
I would think that the alcohol/ethenol would draw alot of moisture into the fuel also ?

Though biodiesel is OK in cars, it has been a failure in stand-by applications, and boats are like that.

(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
pdqaltair is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Playing the SoCal Wait List game heroness Boat Review and Purchase Forum 20 09-27-2007 04:28 PM
Ethanol in an outboard motor? knotaloud Gear & Maintenance 38 07-20-2007 08:37 PM
ethanol in gasoline & marine engines? eryka Gear & Maintenance 13 08-15-2006 12:15 AM
Australia. Heaven Can Wait in control of Brisbane to Gladstone yacht race @ BYM Sailing News NewsReader News Feeds 0 04-15-2006 11:16 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome