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  #31  
Old 07-22-2009
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Anchoring or Sea Brake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JagsBch View Post
What happens when you drop anchor in 20' sea's with 30 MPH winds?
It mostly depends on the water depth, rode length and lee shores.
If the water is 10' deep you will risk finding the bottom with the keel. If you are in deep water of 6000' it won't do much but drag through the water and slow the boat a little. This is why someone mentioned a Jordan Series drogue sea anchor as a possible tactical strategy.

Most of us coastal and inland sailors can only guess what George had to endure.

I think the lesson to be learned here is to know your boat and do some practice sails in rough weather before heading out there for distant shores to see how you and your boat handle the motion of the ocean.
I have only been on 'blue water' for about 400 nm and in a calm sea state while sailing from Tortola to Turks & Caicos and even on a 50' sailboat the normal 'calm' (4-5' waves spaced far apart) ocean going downwind and it was surprising what movement that size boat took on in light conditions. As conditions deteriorate the situation could get exponentially bad as happened to George and 'Gringo' near Bermuda.

I can't second guess George's decisions as I was not there but he lived to write his log that we all read in an above post. I will say that everything Melrna has contributed to this thread says it all for me; people can develop a hubris or a 'must be done by such and such date' attitude that they just leave a bit unprepared for when the sea has an attitude of it's own. Most of us are lucky but we are not trying to cross great swaths of ocean from continent to continent.

I still hope that someone sights his boat before it hits the Bay of Biscay.
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  #32  
Old 07-22-2009
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I can't help but wonder why throwing an anchor out when he was near the reef was not an option. I mean if your in 75' of water or so an anchor to me seem's to be an option, my question is; is it?

Last edited by JagsBch; 07-22-2009 at 09:51 AM.
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  #33  
Old 07-22-2009
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Quote:
George had no insurance on the boat. It would have never passed survey. ... George made every know error in seamanship. First he never did a shake down cruise. He never sailed this boat since he owned it. It was towed to the Marnia when he bought it. For 5 years it only left the dock less than a handful of times and all except one on the motor. Second, he lost his electronics 6 hours into the sail. We told him to turn back to fix them before continuing on. He refused...
Here are the rest of the errors.
Knew all the tanks were bad both fuel and water. One water tank was inoperable. Never polished the fuel before leaving.
Unproven sailplan. All the rigging and running rigging was re-invented on this boat.
Electrical wiring.. Each bulb, equipment or anything electrical had its own wire run. While it sounds grand, it wasn't done properly and we told him so.
Engine - sat for over 8 years. He ran it a few times but never for any length of time. Had a few problems with it and fixed what was needed but from the blog it let him down. He had every known spare except a muffler hose for that engine.
His mainsail shouldn't have came apart like it did. It was restitched and like new. Also, he should have been able to reef it in any wind direction being a furling mainsail. I am puzzled by this. George, having never sailed this boat and unfamiliar with a roller furling mainsail he made a huge error.
The boat or George himself wasn't ready for such a voyage. But one cannot argue with a man when his mind is made up. He thought it would be like his Coconut Milk Run in the Pacific where he took a Coastal Cruiser Catalina 38.
... However, as one can see judgement and boat came together to create such a disaster when mother nature doesn't play by the rules. Georges judgement began to fail when the cut the lines at all cost mentality started to corrupt his thought process. He worked on this boat for 5 years with set back after set back on getting systems right. We saw a change in his mood and thoughts about 6 moths ago. He set a date to cut the lines and by golly "Damm the torpedo's full speed ahead" he did...
So the bottom-line is here is man who had the knowledge with a true bluewater boat failed. Failed due to judgement, pride and dignity getting in the way of sound seamanship. Both the man and the boat failed because neither were properly prepared.
While it is sad that "George" lost his boat, in view of the foregoing it seems to have been all but preordained--by George. How much sympathy does that really merit?
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  #34  
Old 07-22-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagsBch View Post
I can't help but wonder why throwing an anchor out when he was near the reef was not an option. I mean if your in 75' of water or so an anchor to me seem's to be an option, my question is; is it?

Anchoring in rough weather can be very dangerous depending on the conditions, depth, bottom and seas. It can strip your windlass very quickly and even tear it out of the deck before you know it. Just going up forward in storm conditions is dangerous. In this instance I would think that the water would have been much too deep for anchoring.
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  #35  
Old 07-22-2009
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So anchoring in rough sea's is not an option even if your in water shallow enough to anchor properly? Where is the line drawn as to when and when not to anchor?

From what I gather, this scenerio epitomizes the cliche and quote from cool hand luke..

"What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

Gringo, IMO was a boat that screamed to the top of its lungs to an owner who clearly existed in a bubble being deaf dumb and blind to the reeling and writhing cries of Gringo. Like a new mother giving a pacifier to a baby with a crappy diaper inspite of the reaking air, a surgean putting a bandaide on a lump in a womans breast.

Sailing to me is a spiritual endeavor aimed to slow us down and get us consciously connected to reality, to get in touch with seemingly inatimate aspects of reality in intimate way's. I can go out to my boat right now and she will start singing an opera to me regarding what give's her pleasure about our relationship, and what I need to do to get her from sounding like a bunch of screeming sheep. There have been countless nights where I stayed up counting sheep in regards to what is going to take to make them stop screaming.

You dream of the day of going to her and have her entertain you with a choreography and of angelic proportions in the symphany of reality, but this requires you to pay attention to the point of being astutely attuned surgically remove the devil out of the details with a scalpel or even a chainsaw when necassary.

Exponential, the term is a resinating mantra in this thread. The domino effect of being blockheaded to the nagging sound of sheep screaming from her, to the point where there was a complete disconnect in the relationship between the vessel and its host, helps us fully understand what happened here.

This scenerio IMO was the result of ignoring of fatal exception error signals vessels resonate to us in sometimes what may appear as strange and mysterious way's to obvious way's that can force an individual to take a blind eye too things such as hair line crack's, that are clearly symptomatic of serious compromise of integrity or issues that can be ignored and written off as a symptom's of minor superficial aging...

With all the components a vessel possesses the last thing you want to do is get into an exponential fatal exception error while being slammed with the many many crash tests that result from voyages into the frontier of blue.

The reality test of the blue will prove whether you have been paying attention or not. It is hard enough to pass the reality crash test the frontier of the blue has to offer, even when your paying boocoo attention.

The moral of this story: you can either pay the proper attention before you make any voyage or you can and more often than not will wind up paying more than you dreamed of bargaining for... You have to pay to play... Now does it make sense or even cent's to position yourself to pay more than you bargained for to the point of forcing yourself and others to paying the ultimate price for your sheer and utter blockheaded disconnect with not only your vessel but reality?

Angels of grace will fly to our rescue, but when we cross the line to the point where find ourselves in the position of being in a place where even angels fo grace fear to tread, well we have no one to blame but ourselves when we allow the devil to be in the details due to ignoring the screaming sheep who are signalling the wolf in sheeps clothing lurking like rats on our vessel feasting on the stinking cheese of ignorance.

Signed,
Monday morning QB...
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  #36  
Old 07-22-2009
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This thread just got weird.
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  #37  
Old 07-22-2009
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This has me thinking, maybe I ought to name my boat fring...

The pain relief resulting from the pill of wanten ignorance, can and all too often result in the pain's being relieved by the pill's to mutate the symptoms to the point of allowing them to being transformed into an alien like creature that is delivered like child without any anethesia whatsoever. What is worst is seeing the alien demon child consume your life in order to sustain its existence. Buhaha

There have been more than a 1000 episodes of way's to die as a result of putting off the hurt that comes from addressing the screaming issues on a vessel until your underway... You can either hurt now or later, the latter mind you can not only be more painful but lethel. That is not wierd that is for real.
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  #38  
Old 07-22-2009
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The lesson I learned from this is that even though we sail alone, our actions affect others. When we donít prepare properly because of whatever personal reasons, we give more reason for more rules to keep us safe. The people with good intentions, making the rules can make put serious roadblocks in the way of those of us that take responsibility for ourselves. Our local hero Zac Sunderland made it around the world before his 18th birthday last week and I hear lots of people suggesting that his parents are irresponsible to have let him go. The same people allow their 16 year olds to drive on the freeway. Unfortunately some of these people make the rules for the rest of us.
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  #39  
Old 07-22-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
While it is sad that "George" lost his boat, in view of the foregoing it seems to have been all but preordained--by George. How much sympathy does that really merit?
I don't think it's sympathy so much. It's why hammer a guy when he's down?
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  #40  
Old 07-22-2009
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Thanks for posting the log of the Gringo and Melrna's valuable commentary. These two postings should be required reading and re-reading for a good many newbies and inexperienced (in offshore) people that read and post on these forums. Again and again, we see people with a dream, but no/little experience in boat repair and sailing, say I've got $2K, or $10K, or $30K to spend on my first boat, which I intend to sail to the islands or around the world. Not to dash the dream, but like everything else in life, one needs to prepare properly for executing the dream. It takes lots of time and money, and all those junker boats that people substitute Home Depot materials in half-vast upgrades (repairs) just don't make it when the oceans turn mean. I'm not a offshore sailor, don't even want to be, but I spent a few years in the Navy at sea, and when those storms come, it's not pretty even on a ship. Also, newbies might spend some time looking at some of those storms posted on You Tube. And, when they come, you can't just turn them off when you get tired or something breaks. Here we had an experienced sailor and a large, "bluewater" type boat and it still when wrong. Great thread.
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