Lost at Sea - Page 5 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #41  
Old 07-22-2009
Iroquois MkII
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 241
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
LookingForCruiser is on a distinguished road
Jags, you're talking about motoring around in a keelboat sans keel in another thread... just sayin'...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #42  
Old 07-22-2009
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
bpoteat is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauld56 View Post
Our local hero Zac Sunderland....
quick note: Zac is much more than a local hero.
It's hard to look at a guy like that and not feel a complete underachiever.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #43  
Old 07-22-2009
JagsBch's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 371
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
JagsBch is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by LookingForCruiser View Post
Jags, you're talking about motoring around in a keelboat sans keel in another thread... just sayin'...
I am talking about being in the water. Having drink listening to some tunes while watching a sunset with my 2 favorite girls with a fishing line out in the water, all the meanwhile my sailboat is being upgraded...

You can't handle the truth

I was born into a world you... might not understand

Last edited by JagsBch; 07-22-2009 at 02:13 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #44  
Old 07-22-2009
kitejunkie
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
...

Last edited by kitejunkie; 12-26-2009 at 05:41 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #45  
Old 07-22-2009
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
Part cautionary tale, part horrible example. Thanks for posting. As a sailor prepping for a world cruise, I think I'll print this out and tape it to a bulkhead.

George obviously had some sailing experience, but the fact that he had dirty tanks, a half-dead battery in his EPIRB and a few other very dodgy bits of logic make me think that in some critical ways he was woefully unprepared for this trip. He doesn't mention (or I skipped it) his self-steering (whether vane or AP) or whether he could get weather data easily that might have put his boat in less destructive conditions.

Still, I am feeling regret for any sailor who tries to do a big trip and has failures of this cascading sort.
__________________
Can't sleep? Read my countdown to voyaging blog @
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #46  
Old 07-22-2009
captbillc's Avatar
ancient mariner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: duluth ,minnesota
Posts: 430
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
captbillc is on a distinguished road
Smile lost===Vagabond 42

thanks for posting this . it really makes you stop and think. i crossed from spain to gibralter to canarys to antigua on a vagabond 42 in november 1990. we were 6 seasoned seamen. even so, we had some moments of concern. the 20 ft swells from the north with lots of smaller waves between them were enough to cause us to broach a couple of times when the rudder came out of the water with what the owner called a drifter up with 14kn of apparent wind on the stbd quarter @ we are making 7 1/2 kn. we had jerry cans lashed to the rails also. the water fill to the tanks came from the port side on deck to a Y by the port tank & then to the stbd tank. with the constant roll to the port the water in the stbd tank was emptying into the port tank. we were drawing water from the port tank & did not realize the stbd one was draining.we ran out of water a couple days before antigua but had the jerry cans. we were careful of our water use on the trip. i washed up with a mug of water once a day. don't try to cook spaghetti in sea water, it tastes terrible. we had other exciting moments also as anyone on a long voyage will. the autopilot went out the first day out of the canarys 7 we hand steered for 22 days.
__________________
Liberals are people who care about others. Freethinkers are not constrained by the myths of religion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #47  
Old 07-22-2009
Melrna's Avatar
Crazy Woman Boat Driver
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New Bern NC
Posts: 783
Thanks: 16
Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 11
Melrna will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to Melrna Send a message via Yahoo to Melrna
I will try to answer some of the questions here.

Valiente.
He had a bullet proof wind vane on the boat that attached to his rudder. He also had an electric one as well. He had a SSB with weather fax on the boat but lost his electronics 6 hours into the sail. Like I said, we told him on VHF to put into Ft Lauderdale to get it fix or back to us in Miami.
As far as all of us are concerned he did have considerable sea time. More than most sailors. He sailed from Calif to Mexico, to the South Pacific and back in a Catalina 38.
Fishfinder - I am curious, what was George working on for so long (5 years?)? Boat must have been a mess if he spent so much time on it and never got around to fixing the tanks/engine/bulkheads/etc.
As I wrote the boat was a mess when he bought for practically nothing. It was towed into the marina. He spent the first 6 months working on getting the engine working. The entire deck was redone, ripped out the old teak and fiberglassed the decked. Cap rail, new rigging including chainplates. Redid the mast, mizzen, jib and staysail. Built storage boxes on deck to keep all the stuff he had. During the haul-out had the bottom stripped and redone. Sides were re-gelcoated. I believe he rebuilt the rudder as well.
Entire electrical system both AC and DC was rewired and new. Installed all new electronics. New ports. Built the dinghy davits and windvave. The list goes on and on. He did all the work himself and alone except for an occasion hand when needed. It was practically a new boat. But not completed. Like we see there were still some items that needed attention. Critical items for which those of us said get it done before leaving.
For those of you who have never stepped on a Vagabond, it is a solid boat. Big and heavy. Looks like a pirate boat too! The difference between this 42 boat and a production boat of the same size is not in the same world. It feels like it would take a force 6 wind just to get it moving. The fiberglass lay up is over 4 inches I believe. I say this for a reason.
I can only guess that this boat gave George over confidence/false sense in sailing all over the world compared to his Catalina 38. Most of us start out with a light weight production boats and move up to a traditional bluewater boat. Anyone with this kind of traditional heavy displacement boat probably bought this boat thinking it would take care of crew and boat in any weather conditions. "It's a safe boat, all the experts say so!" Being a ketch, with a windvane, one can sail in almost any wind conditions other than dead calm. Most of the items that needed attention George's said could be handled while sailing or in some bay or harbor. He practically had an entire machine shop on this boat and parts to fix anything. He also had the skill to do so.
The second factor was he had over confidence in his sailing ability I believe. Sailors are like pilots. The first few 100 hours we are learning and cautious. The next 300 hours we are safe while perfecting our craft. It is the 500-1500 hours where we become complacent, over confident and accidents happen. I call this bullet proof syndrome; "Nothing can hurt us and I can get out of any situation"! When one survives this phase we become safe again as experience once again shows us we are fallible. I would put George in the 500-1500 hour group in his thought process of seamanship.
The third fault here in what I call the "T" factor. Simply put "testosterone factor". It is that male BS machismo and/or ego. George was single and from South American ancestry. I see it in pilots, sailors and even here on this forum. I am not male bashing per se but seeing it from a female point of view. I have lost to many friends needlessly in my profession (20 year military pilot and commercial pilot). I am tired of going to funerals. I have seen too many sailboat crashes when I raced. I have seen to many male sailors whine because their wife's/girlfriends won't sail with them due to the many reasons stated here on Sailnet and other forums. After reading tons of sailing blogs, it is the admiral who takes the caution approach to things most of the times and says lets wait until things are proper or the wx gets better. There is a difference in thought process when one is solo vs crew onboard especially when it comes to safety. Furthermore two heads are better than one when problems arise. I say this because those of you planning such a voyage either single or with someone else there is a lesson here.
Mother nature and Murphy's Law play by their own rules. We as humans try to conquer or minimize those with knowledge, experience, common sense and a little bit of luck every now and than. If one is going out into the world make sure you take as much of above items as you can. May each of you have fair winds, love in your hearts, enjoy each sunrise and sunset for each day is unique.
Melissa
__________________
Melissa Renee
Moondance
Catalina 445, Hull #90

Last edited by Melrna; 07-22-2009 at 06:37 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #48  
Old 07-22-2009
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,877
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
Good post Mel.
You are right about the solid feel of a V42...but when the bulkheads are disintegrating and the hull is flexing...it doesn't matter much how thick the glass is. There's more to construction quality than thick hulls.
__________________
No longer posting. Reach me by PM!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #49  
Old 07-23-2009
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrna View Post
I will try to answer some of the questions here.

Valiente.
He had a bullet proof wind vane on the boat that attached to his rudder. He also had an electric one as well. He had a SSB with weather fax on the boat but lost his electronics 6 hours into the sail. Like I said, we told him on VHF to put into Ft Lauderdale to get it fix or back to us in Miami.
As far as all of us are concerned he did have considerable sea time. More than most sailors. He sailed from Calif to Mexico, to the South Pacific and back in a Catalina 38.


Mother nature and Murphy's Law play by their own rules. We as humans try to conquer or minimize those with knowledge, experience, common sense and a little bit of luck every now and than. If one is going out into the world make sure you take as much of above items as you can. May each of you have fair winds, love in your hearts, enjoy each sunrise and sunset for each day is unique.
Melissa
Thanks for the clarification, Melissa. The loss (I presume it was unexplained) of the electronics was indeed in my view a sign to turn back and find out what shook loose in that short time, but sailors are no less, and perhaps more, prone to the "goal-oriented" aspects of sailing, rather than seeing it as a process whereby you accept that things fall apart, but are prepared to fix them faster...an aspect of this of course is keeping stuff both robust and simple.

I'm glad he survived, even though it's a hell of a loss. I wonder what he is taking from these experiences?
__________________
Can't sleep? Read my countdown to voyaging blog @
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #50  
Old 07-23-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 671
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 6
lancelot9898 is on a distinguished road
I think the story once again shows that the weakest link in most offshore diasters is the human aboard. Poor judgement in not turning back into port after losing electronics after only 6 hours into the adventure was one of several and not scuttling the boat after rescue was maybe the worse considering Murphy's Law. Even a poorly found boat seems to survive even severe storm conditions in spite of all efforts of crew and captain to "save it".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
You Sail Your Boat Alone???????? deniseO30 herSailNet 70 11-03-2011 03:29 PM
seriesdrogue or sea anchor seajoy Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 64 09-05-2008 06:37 PM
Superstitions at Sea Sue & Larry Learning to Sail Articles 0 01-05-2000 08:00 PM
Superstitions at Sea Sue & Larry Cruising Articles 0 01-05-2000 08:00 PM
The Truth about the Sea Breeze Bob Rice Cruising Articles 0 07-20-1999 09:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:26 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.