The "Cheap Boat" Trap

[smackdaddy]

There are many old, dilapidated, neglected sailboats out there that can be had for virtually nothing. On the one hand, this is great. It provides an entrée into "yachting" for virtually anyone. I personally think that's exactly how it should be. That helps grow the sport and minimizes the "elitist" reputation it's always had. But, there's obviously a serious downside to this as well.

At some point, that "insanely good deal" sailboat you found becomes a huge millstone around your neck. We've seen threads on how expensive it is to own a boat - with the pushed solution typically being fractional ownership. And we've seen threads of how someone can take a basket case and turn it into a seaworthy beauty. But at what point does that "cheap boat" become a trap that you can't get out of?

Here's a graphic that seems to represent the trap with a rough graph:



As represented by the blue line, when you purchase a boat new, the overall ongoing costs are relatively low. The older the boat gets, the more you have to put into it to keep it top-notch - and the more it depreciates. If you don't put enough into it over time to keep the blue line from plunging to 0, then someone has to come along and haul off your now free boat - and put the money and time into it to make up the difference between the green and blue lines on the right side of the graph.

Now, as indicated by the red line, there's obviously a sweet spot in there. And everyone's sweet spot will be very different depending on how rich or poor or motivated or handy or patient or lucky they are. This is why I think it's an interesting debate; and one that will obviously cause a lot of fights (and that's always good).

So the fundamental question is, understanding the widely accepted idea that you'll always be throwing money at your boat (hole in the water, etc) - at what point does that "great deal" truly become a trap that will break you?

Let me put it more bluntly so we can really get at the nub of this whole debate...when is someone "too poor" to own a "yacht"?

Ready...aim....

[painkiller]

One way to eliminate the elitist reputation is to not use fancy words like "entrée".

[smackdaddy]

Heh-heh. But I love words with those little thingies hanging over them. And I got two e-s for the price of one. That just makes me thrifty.

[bloodhunter]

Smack,
First a yacht is a boat of any size owned by a rich person, ergo most of us will never own yachts.
Second your question has two answers.
If a person cannot afford the upkeep on the boat no matter how motivated; when the condition fo the boat starts going downhill and the owner can't afford to reverse the slide then the owner is too poor to own the boat.
Or
If the owner doesn't want to sail anymore and decides not to put any more into the upkeep of the boat, the boat is going to deteriorate and the results will be the same as if the money wasn't there.
I think the latter seems to happen to a lot of owners, thus the boats that sit in their slips or at their mooring from one year to the next without any use.
A number of boats like that in our marina and I suspect in most others

[WouldaShoulda]

Just because I got old tires and a toilet in my front yard don't mean I "too poor" for nothin'!!

You think you're better than me??

Why I oughta...

[smackdaddy]

I keep my old tires and toilet on the deck of my yacht. So we're even.

Seriously, the debate raging in DS's thread is really centered on this question. I have no idea what that guy's financial status is - but I started thinking how I could see myself walking away from something that was going to cost me thousands of dollars for very, very little return. Yes, maybe it would be the "respectable" thing to do to put the money in and remove the boat - but if I didn't have the cash to do it - I'd be very tempted to bail...especially if I had already put in a good chunk of money into fixing up the boat. I'm just being honest here.

Right now on my C27 there are thousands of dollars worth of repairs and upgrades I should put in to make the boat "truly seaworthy and safe". I need new keel bolts, the rigging could use some attention, the stanchions and ports need rebedding, the motor is not 100% reliable, etc. Don't get me wrong, the boat is in great shape and I've brought her back from serious neglect to a pretty respectable and comfortable vessel.

But, it's back to the risk/reward thing. I'm taking risks with various things that could seriously bite me. I think we all are.

I just don't have the money to deal with them all - all at once - on an old boat. On the other hand, I'm out sailing. And I ain't dead yet.

[bpoteat]

My take is that it really, REALLY depends on the person.

For example, my wife has a new mini-van that was bought new and we keep maintained. It cannot fail - she needs it to get around. If something happened to it, we would have it repaired immediately under warranty. I have an older VW that I maintain myself. I learn from it and enjoy working on it and take pride in every thing I've done on it. The tasks I've done on it have gotten gradually more complicated as I've learned the car & I've developed quite a bit of tools.

If my VW died on me I'd hate it, but I could manage without it until I got it fixed again since I work close to home (and have my wife to drive me if needed). That said - I do as much as I can but my skills, tools, and motivation level only goes so far - I wouldn't want to rebuild the engine and/or transmission.

In summary, I think it's a lot easier to handle one or two things that need fixing at a time gradually, than to have to handle pretty much everything on it.

I think many take the same approach to a boat. The hobby isn't just sailing - it's taking care of a sailboat.

I'm always keeping my eye out for a boat that mostly works but needs a bit of love to get it back to prime. My personality lends itself to doing constant repairs - within my means. I would never in a million years try to pull that thing up that's sitting in the Charleston creek. I would, however, take a boat that's got most of it's parts working and fix the ones that aren't.

[joethecobbler]

I think your asking a simple question about a very complicated matter. Dedication, commitment,and priority would be the answer.
As I pass my days sailing and searching boatyards and marinas I am fascinated by all the diiferent craft and conditions of the vessels.
When I spend my time in the new england area I make a point to visit the boatyards to see wich boats have activity around them and which do not.
It's been an easy way to find inexpensive boats, to use as well as to re-sell, after a bit of work.
That , is where things begin to get a bit more complex. If ,for example, the most complicated mechanical knowledge and experience you posess is replacing a vaccuum bag, then you would be wise to aviod boats with engine/trans. issues. However, if you've spent all your free time doing wood carving and cabinetry, Then a rotten old wooden boat may not seem like too much of a chalenge to you.
I often take on sail and canvas repair and fabrication jobs. not a big deal as I posess the equipment and have experience using it. when some-one asks me if a particular job is difficult, I say NO. Never considering THEY are asking if it is difficult for THEM not me.
I believe the master of S/V DS merely was outside of his element and overwhelmed when the vessel grounded and faultered. Unable to quickly remedy the problem it has now become a bigger problem. Of course, had money not been an issue, the vessel would'nt be where it is. On the other hand had money not been an issue the situation would most likely not have taken place in the manner it has/did.
Being of considerable means does not gaurantee you vessel will not faulter, only good seamanship and the grace of god can assure that. The bottom of the Ocean is littered with vessels once owned by the wealthy. Many more so than those owned by the poor. It's not a question of economics as much as seamanship and chance.
The other thing I would point out is. If a 30'-50' vessel had grounded in the same location 75 years or more ago it wouldn't be an issue very long, as it would have not been fiberglass and nature would have quickly re-claimed it.
But the advent of the plastic boat has brought the issue of sunken and abandoned vessels to the forefront as the seem to "last" longer instead of just fade away.
One of the many "costs" of modern technology.
In regards to any reference of whom should be allowed to own what. Again I say look to written history and see that many with little or no means have successfully sailed far on little money. But what they lacked in cash they more than made up for in ability. As apparently most people seem to today. Look around, it seems the craftsmen and skilled laborers are almost a thing of the past, at ANY cost.
Travel to many places outside the US and there are still traditional boatbuilders building in wood with hand tools. Go to your local boatyard and chances are you wouldn't be allowed to do work there if in fact you were able without insurance and 1/2 a dozen attorneys giving the nod.
Do a little reading about Sailors and methods used to care for large ships before internal combustion engines were the norm and everyone was a sailor because that's all there was.
Just look at what Slocum built and sailed from Rio to NY , with his young family ! Money would have made it easier for him but not more possible.

[CharlieCobra]

Don't get me started about old boats, money and time. Usually ya have time or money but not both. Old boats are easy to come by and harder to get rid of.

[tommays]

I am looking at a Cal 29 right now that and older friend owns and fully understand what it needs and how much it will cost

The biggest single issue right now is to get insurance it needs to pass a survey and i don't think it will pass without ME doing a lot of wiring repair/replace as its a bit of a mess

BUT it has a high probity of turning into a Catch 22 as i wont sink money into a boat i don't own and cant own it without a passing grade