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chef2sail 08-10-2009 08:46 PM

Anchor Set Up
 
OK we were anchored in Grey's Inn Creek here on the Chesapeake Saturday night. 10 ft of H2O, no wind, 90 degrees. Wind slowly come up for 1/2 hour to 10 knots. Its 11 PM just ready to pour a second glass of wine get a shower and the chart plotter alarm goes off followed by a thump which I hate top here. I look out the companionway and we are close to shore. Too close. I scramble with the wife, we get topside, turn on the engine and depth finder and alas we are in 3.5 feet of water.....grounded...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

So I go to bow to see why we have dragged, not believing it as we had set a 35 lb Danforth which we use primarily in the Chesapeake and I crank in the 60 ft of line..then start cranking in the 60 feet of chain but it is moving to easily. 30 feet of chain later I am like WILEY T COYOTE with just the end chain in my hand. It has parted and we lost the anchor. we plowed out of the soft mud and ungrounded and wound up coming home at 3 AM as I didn't want to try my luck again setting up the 25 lb spare delta and it was a beautiful full moon sail.

I wanted to improve my anchor system, but was going to wait till next year but alas..we know how that boat story goes sometimes.

My two choices for new anchors were 45 Manson Supreme second and the 44 lb Ronca first. I weigh in at 18000 and am 25 ft. Maybe a little larger than I need, but in this case a few extra lbs for more peace of mind.

My questions:

1- I have never used a swivel, but think I should this time for the wind and current shifts I anchor in. Should that be attached to the anchor or to the shackle on the anchor... and then to the chain. What kind of swivels have other used which works best.
2- I was thinking of purchasing a small float and attaching 50 or so feet of lite 3 strand line to it and then to the anchor to use as a trip system should I have trouble getting the anchor up. Playing out only the amount of line when I drop the hook that the water depth the anchor is in plus maybe 8 ft to allow for swells/ wakes. What kind of similar systems do you use.
3- I am liking the 60 ft chain 250 feet line rode combo I had previously used. It given a lot to lay on the bottom, which not having all the weight of an all chain rode.
4-snubber. What if any does everyone use when anchoring (not mooring)

I don't want this thread to turn into a discussion about anchors as I am decided on the RONCA as long as she fits into my current bow rolled/ bail configuration

Thanks in advance for your comments

Dave

jackdale 08-10-2009 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chef2sail (Post 512714)

1- I have never used a swivel, but think I should this time for the wind and current shifts I anchor in. Should that be attached to the anchor or to the shackle on the anchor... and then to the chain. What kind of swivels have other used which works best.

No experience with swivels - no comments.


Quote:

2- I was thinking of purchasing a small float and attaching 50 or so feet of lite 3 strand line to it and then to the anchor to use as a trip system should I have trouble getting the anchor up. Playing out only the amount of line when I drop the hook that the water depth the anchor is in plus maybe 8 ft to allow for swells/ wakes. What kind of similar systems do you use.
A trip is often recommended in situations in which fouling the anchor is a possibilities. They will reduce the number of boats that can use an anchorage as they reduce the swing room available. Since 1984 I have never fouled an anchor (knock on wood). I teach people how to use, but do not use one myself.

If you are using a trip line weight the line. This site shows a good setup.

Quote:

3- I am liking the 60 ft chain 250 feet line rode combo I had previously used. It given a lot to lay on the bottom, which not having all the weight of an all chain rode.
That should work. All chain would reduce your swing room, and "short scoping" is more feasible. A windlass becomes necessary with an all-chain system.

You might add a kellet to your system. A heavy downrigger ball will work well.

Quote:

4-snubber. What if any does everyone use when anchoring (not mooring)
I use a snubber only when I am on chain only. It helps minimize noise in the V-berth and adds additional shock absorption. A snubber is not necessary if you have an rope rode out.

Jack

pdqaltair 08-10-2009 09:46 PM

A swivel is not for wind changes, it is to keep the chain from twisting ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chef2sail (Post 512714)
OK we were anchored in Grey's Inn Creek here on the Chesapeake Saturday night. 10 ft of H2O, no wind, 90 degrees. Wind slowly come up for 1/2 hour to 10 knots. Its 11 PM just ready to pour a second glass of wine get a shower and the chart plotter alarm goes off followed by a thump which I hate top here. I look out the companionway and we are close to shore. Too close. I scramble with the wife, we get topside, turn on the engine and depth finder and alas we are in 3.5 feet of water.....grounded...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

So I go to bow to see why we have dragged, not believing it as we had set a 35 lb Danforth which we use primarily in the Chesapeake and I crank in the 60 ft of line..then start cranking in the 60 feet of chain but it is moving to easily. 30 feet of chain later I am like WILEY T COYOTE with just the end chain in my hand. It has parted and we lost the anchor. we plowed out of the soft mud and ungrounded and wound up coming home at 3 AM as I didn't want to try my luck again setting up the 25 lb spare delta and it was a beautiful full moon sail.

I wanted to improve my anchor system, but was going to wait till next year but alas..we know how that boat story goes sometimes.

My two choices for new anchors were 45 Manson Supreme second and the 44 lb Ronca first. I weigh in at 18000 and am 25 ft. Maybe a little larger than I need, but in this case a few extra lbs for more peace of mind.

My questions:

1- I have never used a swivel, but think I should this time for the wind and current shifts I anchor in. Should that be attached to the anchor or to the shackle on the anchor... and then to the chain. What kind of swivels have other used which works best.
2- I was thinking of purchasing a small float and attaching 50 or so feet of lite 3 strand line to it and then to the anchor to use as a trip system should I have trouble getting the anchor up. Playing out only the amount of line when I drop the hook that the water depth the anchor is in plus maybe 8 ft to allow for swells/ wakes. What kind of similar systems do you use.
3- I am liking the 60 ft chain 250 feet line rode combo I had previously used. It given a lot to lay on the bottom, which not having all the weight of an all chain rode.
4-snubber. What if any does everyone use when anchoring (not mooring)

I don't want this thread to turn into a discussion about anchors as I am decided on the RONCA as long as she fits into my current bow rolled/ bail configuration

Thanks in advance for your comments

Dave

when the anchor spins while hoisting.

Seems unlikely 10 knots broke anything, since the pull would not have been more than a few hundred pounds. Did the shackle unscrew?

camaraderie 08-10-2009 09:55 PM

Chef...assuming the Chessie is your cruising ground for the forseeable future, I second your chain/rope combo plan...though I would go shorter on the chain...perhaps 40-50 ft...so that you will have more nylon out even in shoal anchorages.
They nylon will serve as your snubber so you need no other unless you lay to your chain only...which will only complicate things when you have the nylon rode available simply by letting out more scope.
I would not bother at all with a trip line in the Chessie unless you are planning on anchoring in Baltimore Harbor. To break out a stuck anchor, simply drive the boat up on the rode till it is vertical then snub the rode off as you drive the boat forward if the seas are too calm to do that for you.
There is no need for an anchor swivel and it adds complication and an additional point of failure.

St Anna 08-10-2009 09:56 PM

My situation appears to be different to yours, so this is just what I do.
I am guessing your shackle just parted company and the weight of the chain kept you quiet until breeze increased to 10kn. Things can happen no matter how well you prepare.

I use galvanised chain and anchor and tested galv shackle to join chain to anchor. Shackle is moused. I usually use a long snubber line for stretch and a big loop of chain between snubber and boat. I have No.2 anchor on its own chain ready to go no matter what.

In quiet conditions you usually need not use more than 4:1. (Did you really have 12:1 out in <10kn of breeze?) Do you 'set' the anchor or just drop it? I use a trip line if I am worried about it or cannot dive down. I would oversize the anchor and chain, but not too much.

If I am worried about dragging - I mark the position on the GPS where the anchor was dropped. If I have 60' of chain out, then I can move no more than 120' - [usually only the 60']. Any more and I am dragging. This hasn't happened yet with my combo, but peace of mind is worth a lot if worried and tired.

Cheers
DC

chef2sail 08-10-2009 10:18 PM

Our usual procedure for anchoring is me dropping the hook in a controlled free fall so the chain does not just pile on top of the anchor. We have a manual windlass so this is actually quite easy. Once my scope is 5X depth my wife put the engine in reverse and makes sure the anchor is set properly under load. I would then let out the appropriate scope. The reason we did 12X is that they were actually calling for SMW of 18-22 knots.

What was so amazing about this is that the chain parted at the 30 foot mark. It wasn't the case of a loose shackle or failed one as there was originally 60 feet of chain. We also appropriately had 3 wraps of seizing wire on the shackle.

Cam thanks for the advice on the snubber. I was figuring the "give" in the nylon rode will take up the shock. Even though we primarily anchor in the Chessie we also take some long trips every year. This year we went to Mystic and Block Island and next will be Newport, Cuttyhunk. Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket.

I only thankfully the chain didn't part when we were anchored in Branford between two rock groups called Big and Little Mermaid.

Dave

lancelot9898 08-10-2009 10:24 PM

I would want to investigate as to why the anchor system failed in 10 knots of wind and understand that before making a decision on a new anchor system. And why the long scope??

lancelot9898 08-10-2009 10:32 PM

I see that you already answered my question while I was typing. :) Maybe a test on the remaining chain would be in order? I would not use it again although it does not seem to be under any strain?? How old and what size and material? Try to recover the anchor and remaining chain would also help understand just went on.

St Anna 08-10-2009 10:32 PM

CHef,
SOunds like you did everything properly and a poor link parted company. As you said, lucky it happened in a quiet place. I hope it was a good Merlot and not some cask wine - and I hope you finished your glass without spilling a drop !!

Your cruising area has always appealed to me. If possible, please email me some photos.
David

fullkeel7 08-10-2009 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chef2sail (Post 512714)


1- I have never used a swivel, but think I should this time for the wind and current shifts I anchor in. Should that be attached to the anchor or to the shackle on the anchor... and then to the chain. What kind of swivels have other used which works best.
Dave

I can't locate it again, :o but one of the expensive SS swivels sites showed their swivel attached directly to the anchor and recommended that in the verbage. The add mentioned that the swivel mainly aids in the anchor's correct orientation onto the roller during retrieval. Never used one??


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