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13-year-old Laura Dekker around the world

33K views 230 replies 67 participants last post by  hellosailor 
#1 ·
#2 ·
Interesting.

Her age and her boat's capabilities notwithstanding, a couple of things struck me.

From a legal stand point, it's amazing to this American that a court in the Netherlands could presume to strip the parents of their guardianship and make the girl a ward of the state, all for something that has not even happened. They are simply discussing plans and taking steps which would lead to her sailing around the world solo -- is this a thought crime in the Netherlands now??

There is no mention of any prior history of parental abuse. Unless they allege that her prior seven-week solo trip, which was successfully completed with no harm coming to the child, amounts to abuse and or neglect? If so, that is an extraordinary leap. What next? Was I abusing my children by letting them solo sail our dinghy when they were 5 years old?

And why is it that parents must get the permission of the State to withdraw their children from the school system? Have the European governments really intruded this much into their citizen's private lives? Here in the U.S., no such "permission" is required. Parents have the final say on their children's educational pursuits.

Couldn't her parents simply travel with her to another country and have her depart from there? Or will the State actually block their right to travel, as well?
 
#226 ·
Dutch education (laws)

Interesting.

John I just noticed your comments from last fall and only want to say that it being a law to have to go to school in the Netherlands is not that bad. It results in a higher literacy, match proficiency, and all around better general educated 16 year old(10th grade) than here in the US where too large a percentage of the 10th graders can't read, write or add above an elementary (6th grade) level.
 
#5 ·
"Education duty"!?!?

When the government usurped the fundamental rights of parents, was there not even a whimper of dissent, much less a revolution?:eek: :confused:

P.S. I agree, there are two discussions here, and I am focussing only on one side of it for present.
 
#7 ·
First of all, I cannot imagine letting my son do that.

However, why is it that modern society views maturity by years of age and not by how they act? Some of the most immature people I know are well over 21. In fact, I have one at 29 that I know personally that my 9 yo is more mature than.

My grandmother was married and had her first child at 14. Yes, 14. I did not miss-type. Do a little history and you will see that many of the officers on the old wooden boats were well under the age of 18. They started them young and based their decisions on their suitability by their child and not so much his age. I think Master and Commander did a good job at presenting this. If I recall, I believe they had to be 13 or 14 to serve and they often lied about their ages. And read back to some of the history of the US and the old west and the ages of children when they were out trapping and building homesites. It is eye-opening. What about the kids who in Congo and other parts of Africa are handed a rifle at age 9 yo's and told to fight or die?

I realize the difference between serving in the military and taking a choice-trip around the world is very different. But I would not say that serving on a British Man of War was any less dangerous and maybe more dangerous. Being a child in Africa is certainly no less dangerous.

All that said, I cannot see me doing sending my kids around the world on some publicity stunt. What is the point? Is it for the child or a 30 minute claim-to-fame? I know John would not do it either.

My only frustration is that I hate the way our society has cataloged each of us based upon the number of years we have on the planet versus who we are. And I especially hate the way governments (ours or others) have unilaterally taken over from the parents as knowing what is best for children. These same governements not a hundred years ago were sticking their kids on frigates and sending them to war. It's still happening in Africa. And given the same circumstances, I would not be surprised to see them do it again for their own personal agendas or for what they feel is best for their country. Double standard if yiou ask me.

- CD
 
#12 ·
My only frustration is that I hate the way our society has cataloged each of us based upon the number of years we have on the planet versus who we are. And I especially hate the way governments (ours or others) have unilaterally taken over from the parents as knowing what is best for children.
I couldn't agree more. Laws about what somebody can and cannot do based on age are simply age discrimination. While people do generally become more experienced and responsible as they get older, the variation between different people is often greater than the change an individual makes with age.

A good example is the driving age- it's absurdly easy to get a drivers license once you are of legal age, but impossible before that. Just a few seconds of driving on the road here in Los Angeles will prove that simply being of legal age fails to provide people with the ability to drive safely. I am certain there are people much younger than 16 that are capable of driving safer than many adults, and would be able to pass a much more rigorous drive test than is currently given.
 
#10 ·
Okay, that's a relief. Now we can discuss whether she SHOULD go, which is an entirely different question from whether she is ALLOWED to go, or whether the State should be taking custody of a child because her parents choose to raise her in an unconventional way that potentially loosens the grip of the State's stranglehold on her education....

I went to her website, but for some reason I only got the front page and couldn't enter beyond. The article linked above indicates she will be sailing in an 8.3M yacht ("Guppy"). Beyond that I don't know much about her boat, equipment, preparations, planned route, etc.

Although, she was born aboard and cruised with her parents during the first seven years of her life. And she has completed a seven-week solo trip. That puts her well beyond the vast majority of sailors as far as experience goes. Sounds like she has salt in her veins.

So until I hear compelling evidence that she is not adequately prepared or equipped for this voyage, or that her parents are pressuring her to make it, I will reserve further judgement and only wish her "godspeed."
 
#13 · (Edited)
Okay, thanks. Looks like the english-language version will be up soon too.

In the meanwhile, for those of you who like me are Dutch-challenged, her boat is a 1996 Hurley 800, new to her (but secondhand new). Here's a link to Hurley's website:

Hurley 800

and here are her vitals:

Net zoals Laura's vorige boot is dit ook weer een S-spant:

Lengte over alles: 8,30 m (LOA 8.3M)
Breedte : 2,75 m (Beam 2.75M)
Diepte: 1,40 m (Draft 1.4 M)
Waterverplaatsing: 3200 kg (Displacement 3200 kg)
Ballast: 1600 kg (Ballast 1600 kg)
Doorvaarthoogte: 12,50 m (met antenne) (Bridge clearance with antenna 12.5 M)
Watertank: 120 liter
Bouwjaar: 1996 (Build Year 1996)
Bouwnummer: 357 (Hull Number 357)
Stahoogte:1.80 m (Standinghead room 1.8M)
Motor: Vetus Diesel (16 pk)
 
#14 ·
Reisplan

And here is her intended route. It appears she is planning a two year circumnavigation, with stops, via the Panama and Suez canals, and the Med:

Reisplan

Het is moeilijk om precies aan te geven hoe de reis van Laura zal verlopen. Toch heeft ze al een voorlopig schema opgesteld:

2009
September: Vertrek Nederland
December: Vertrek Canarische Eilanden

2010
Januari: Aankomst Cariben
Mei: Panama
November: Aankomst Australië
December: Darwin

2011
Februari: Sri Lanka
April: Begin rode zee
Juli: Middellandse zee
Augustus: Gibraltar
September: Nederland
 
#16 ·
To this Colonial there is nothing amazing about it. Sending a 13-year old alone and unsupervised around the world, presumably for a year on her own? Would qualify the family for legal intervention in the US as well. AFAIK most or all US "child welfare" agencies, in all states, would call the abandonment and lack of supervision and they'd seize the child, make her a ward of the state, and bring charges against the parents.

Whether that's right or wrong...that's what many modern protectionist (ahem, Socialist) states do, and have done for some long time now. Nothing amazing here, or there.

Since she is a minor, there's also a question of how she would enter various nations in transit--again, alone and unsupervised. Some may not allow a minor unaccompanied. Others will have a problem that she cannot make any legal contract, so who carries her insurance liability for marina? And so on.

It has been a long time since "child kings" were sitting on the throne of most nations, and these days a 13-year old is only an adult in places like the African bush.

Of course, if the parents are serious, they'll understand why they are wrong under Dutch (and many other) laws, emigrate quickly to someplace where their actions are legal and acceptable, and abandon their child from there. It's a quick and simple solution, isn't it?
 
#17 ·
Good point hello. I hadn't thought about it that way.

This better than summer camp for parents! Toss your kid onto a sailboat, push it away from the dock toward Panama, wave goodbye, and party for 2 years! Just like being 20 again!

Nice.
 
#19 ·
Girl's mature faster than boys. I don't recall anyone making a fuss about Zac's trip (I believe he was just 15 when he left.)

I sense a double standard.
 
#20 ·
Double standard?

I don't see that. I see one case (Zac's) where no one raised a point about his age, versus a second case (Holland) where the thread only was started BECAUSE "the state" was raising the point.

Hey, replacement kids are cheap, the Chinese export 'em by the boatload and in many parts of the world you can buy them for a lot less than the Chinese charge. The great (cough cough) concern and sanctity for each life is very much a luxury of recent Western European Civilization. There are parts of the world where breaking your baby's legs is a GOOD THING because it ensures they can have a job as a beggar.

No double standards, just different considerations in different venues. I suspect "Whoa! Dude!" plays differently in Dutch.
 
#21 ·
According to the Dutch Telegraaf (biggest newspaper) Laura was taken in custody in a Childhouse earlier this year by the British Authorities. She sailed to England by her own and the Authorities helt her because they found it to dangerous for her to sail home alone at sea.
The reason she was sent to a Childhome was because her father refused to pick her up in England. Later he came and sent her home by her own boat.
The British contacted the Dutch Police and the Youthcare organization.

Her Mother isn't happy with the plans. But she will let her go, because she don't like to lose the contact with Laura. Her parents are divorced.

This Tread wasn't ment to discuss the legal side, but to inform you that there are big dreams even by youngsters. Time will tell the future about this story.

Whole story n Dutch.
Laura zat even in kindertehuis
De 13-jarige Laura Dekker, die in haar eentje rond de wereld wil zeilen, is dit voorjaar in Engeland door de politie tegengehouden.
Ze was naar Engeland gezeild, maar de autoriteiten vonden het te gevaarlijk om haar alleen op zee terug te laten varen. Omdat haar vader aanvankelijk niet naar Engeland wilde komen om haar op te halen, werd ze tijdelijk in een kindertehuis geplaatst. Dat zei haar advocaat Peter de Lange donderdag naar aanleiding van berichtgeving in de Volkskrant.

Daarop besloot vader Dick toch maar naar Engeland af te reizen. Maar eenmaal op de kade aangekomen negeerde hij de Britten en lioet Laura toch in haar eentje terug naar Nederland terugvaren. „Dat is ook helemaal niet strafbaar, niet van hem en niet van haar”, aldus De Lange, die niet uitsluit dat Laura werd tegengehouden na een tip uit Nederland.

De Britten schakelden vervolgens de Nederlandse politie en Bureau Jeugdzorg in.

De Lange benadrukt dat Laura eerder door de autoriteiten is tegengehouden, toen zij alleen op bijvoorbeeld het IJsselmeer of langs de Nederlandse kust zeilde. „Maar dat leverde nooit een probleem op, want het is niet illegaal.”

De kinderrechter in Utrecht beslist vrijdag of de ouders van Laura worden beperkt in het gezag over hun dochter. Ze wil alleen de wereld rondzeilen. Haar ouders steunen de plannen voor de twee jaar durende reis.

Laura's ouders zijn gescheiden en de moeder van de havo-scholiere zou niet staan te springen bij de plannen van haar dochter. Ze zou het echter toelaten omdat ze het contact met Laura niet wil verliezen.
 
#22 ·
Her Mother isn't happy with the plans. But she will let her go, because she don't like to lose the contact with Laura. Her parents are divorced.
Thanks for that additional insight, Pierre. Also, for your earlier post that seems to indicate that the court case has not yet been resolved.

This is a different scenario from what I originally supposed. It's not a case of the parents being united on what is best for their child and the government interfering. Apparently the parents are somewhat at odds with one another.

It sounds like the father has custody. The trip seems to be happening against the wishes of her mother, and at the encouragement if not prodding of her father. Not good.

Maybe the courts should shift custody to the mother.
 
#23 · (Edited)
#25 ·
Most (if not all) states in the US require a child to attend some form of school until a certain age. Where I grew up you had to attend school until the age of 16. After that you could drop out if you wanted to. The State freaking out about her missing 2 years of compulsory school is not a uniquely Dutch concern. You can't do it here, either.

Also, I agree that kids can dream big, but they don't temper those dreams with reality. My little boy would probably think it'd be the coolest thing in the world to circumnavigate, but he probably won't consider any of the potential problems that come along with that sort of trip (like being away from mom and dad for 2 years!) That's my job. That is part of a parent's responsibility.
 
#39 ·
Most (if not all) states in the US require a child to attend some form of school until a certain age. Where I grew up you had to attend school until the age of 16. After that you could drop out if you wanted to. The State freaking out about her missing 2 years of compulsory school is not a uniquely Dutch concern. You can't do it here, either...
I'm going to respectfully disagree.

I'm not aware of a single State in the U.S. that doesn't allow home-schooling. And it is not something that requires the permission of the state or local government, either. If any communication with the government is required at all, it is merely to inform them that your child won't be attending their local school system. It's certainly not to ask permission.

As far as the curriculum, home schooled kids can have as structured or unstructured a program as their parents want. Hell, some parents embrace a philosophy called "unschooling" where the kids follow no curriculum whatsoever. Instead they learn by doing/experience. No academics whatsoever.

Bottom line: Attending the government's school system is not compulsory in the United States, as it appears to be in Holland.
 
#26 ·
Been there done that with the school when my daughter was in the ballet company between 14 and 17 years old

Everbody pitched a fit ,I sad F_OFF and did some internet school with her NOW she has a degree from SUNY Buffalo and is starting her MSW at SUNY Stonybrook next week

In fact the ballet deal has opened a LOT of doors for her because it has proven how hard she is willing to work to reach a goal


Normal high school is HIGHLY overrated and does not send a child into the world prepared for much of anything BUT more school
 
#28 ·
Been there done that with the school when my daughter was in the ballet company between 14 and 17 years old

Everbody pitched a fit ,I sad F_OFF and did some internet school with her NOW she has a degree from SUNY Buffalo and is starting her MSW at SUNY Stonybrook next week

In fact the ballet deal has opened a LOT of doors for her because it has proven how hard she is willing to work to reach a goal

Normal high school is HIGHLY overrated and does not send a child into the world prepared for much of anything BUT more school
Kudos to your daughter, but- and with all due respect- traveling with a ballet company, in a group, supervised, is an entirely different experience from circumnavigating the globe alone.

At any age.

No 13 year old- any nation, any creed- is mature enough to handle the psychological stresses of a circumnavigation. The physical challenges, maybe, but the stressors of single handed life for 2 years? No.

Hey, I'm all about government staying out of our lives, but it's parental decision making like this that allows them to get involved in the first place.
 
#27 ·
We are all fools no matter what age

If she has the blessings of the parents and she willingly and truly wants to do it... History - Christopher Columbus as an example..Nothing should get in her way if she has the knowledge, ambition,courage and resources. Promblem with our society we set age limits instead of competency ones.
 
#30 ·
IIRC, Jessica was killed by her flight instructor allowing heavy camera equipment into the back of the plane, both making the plane overweight and putting the center of gravity too far aft. That last part is difficult to do when a 200 pound adult is sitting next to the instructor, and easy when it's a lightweight child sitting there instead.

The comparison here isn't that easy, more like Laura Dekkker having an adult on board that decided to open all the seacocks and hatches in a storm, and take out the reefs and furl out more genny to boot, all while pouring seawater into the diesel tank and unscrewing the keel bolts. Jessica would have been better off by herself than with that hack of an instructor that ended up killing them both.

Not saying anything about Laura with the above, just setting the record straight on Jessica. When the weather is nice, a thoroughly trained 9 year old can fly planes all day safely.

As for Laura, it's the land-based dangers that might be worse than the dangers at sea. If dad met her in every port and helped her with basic protection against bad guys, provisioning, weather windows and other planning, that would be a big improvement. Following her would be even better.
 
#31 ·
For the moment Laura is not alowed to go!
The authority of the parents is limited by court. At this way they try to prevent Laura leaving The Netherlands. She can live with her father at home. The Judge emphasized that the father isn't a bad father.
Supervision by Youthcare is for 2 months. Meanwhile they will research if Laura can handle the psychic pressure of the planned trip and if she is able to home-school herself for 3rd and 4th grade.
So, if nothing special happens in between we have to waite 2 more months.
 
#32 ·
Pierre - do you think she should go? I'm kind of interested in your perspective since this is happening in your backyard. We Yanks always are quick with an opinion - but it's from our cultural viewpoint, not yours.

If nothing else, how can a kid home-school herself? That sounds weird.
 
#34 · (Edited)
My daughter home-school here self with and internet based school program we payed for that included grading and while she had a host family It was here and the 3 roommates that rasied each other

Oak Meadow: Homeschooling Curriculum, Resources, and Support

It must of worked because when she moved to a different company in Carlisle PA she had no problem being placed into the 12th grade and getting a REAL diploma in one year :)

And getting into collage RIGHT after that

I get a bit extra pisssed about the whole thing because i went the trade school route in 1973 and got SH?? about back then and the know it alls have pretty much destroyed the trade programs NOW in this area ,By making it more and more diffcult to learn a trade and get a diploma which was the norm in the past

Your also deluding yourself about"happy home life" and what a kid can do i had two handicapped brothers and two parents with drinking problems and was the adult pretty dam early in life
 
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