13-year-old Laura Dekker around the world - Page 22 - SailNet Community

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  #211  
Old 12-22-2009
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[quote=NCountry;553364 I know of plenty of people that while of age, have no business even driving a car or any business voting for that matter.[/quote]

Isn't that the truth.
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  #212  
Old 12-22-2009
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Is she ready for it? Read for yourself. Not third hand or after someone’s opinion. Look at LauraDekker.nl de Jongste solozeiler ter wereld! - ‚—¶ Home ‚—¶ the Dutch version only.

There are too many points which prove she was not ready and still is not ready. Wouldn’t it be better she and her father made plans for all (or most) points listed, in advance like good cruisers do?

Points are made by the council of child-protection and the office youth-care.

She had no plans or permission for home-school, not enough experience in solo sailing with use of new safety and navigation appliances, no or not enough healthcare experience, No plan and experience in sleep management, No complete safety-plan, No list with escape harbours, No communication plan with shore, No plan for for safety in ports of call, No secondary energy source onboard, No or not enough skills in solving problem situations, …….

This is where it is all about!
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  #213  
Old 12-23-2009
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I’ve been reading this thread almost since the beginning but this is the first time I’ve responded.. To start I obviously don’t know Laura Dekker or any of the other people involved with her. I don’t read Dutch and so can not really know what the details of the courts have said and why -- and believe me the devil is invariably in the details. Further I have no idea whether Laura Dekker is capable, physically and/or psychologically of making this trip or whether it was actually her idea or a scheme dreamed up by her father for money and publicity and sold to her.
The being said what I do wonder whether some really believe that a government has no business in regulating any aspect of the parent-child relationship. If that’s not the case, and some regulation is permissible, then where do they draw the line.
Yeah it seams incongruous that at 18 a person can vote and join the military but cannot buy a drink. Should their be a drinking age, if so what? I know why the drinking age was raised from 18 to 21 , it was the same reason that males under 25 are charged much higher rates for auto insurance. And what about the minimum smoking age? Then there’s the driving age, school requirements, vaccinations, any of the age-of-consent rules. Should the government set minimum ages for anything?.
In addition, courts in the U.S. have consistently mandated medical care for children when their parents believed such care was against God’s will. And look at the outcry when a child is killed or severely injured because a social service agency didn’t take the child away from the parents.
Western civilization has a long history of involvement in regulating children’s behavior. Admittedly the rules sometimes seem arbitrary and at best have a one-size-fits-all statistical basis and they are almost always judgment calls. Reasonably, the judges usually are influenced by what they think is most likely to happen.
Are the judges experts in sailing? I doubt it. Was the ruling correct? That certainly can be argued. But when you get down to it, under the law, the judges had not only the right but the obligation to hand down a ruling – and that’s what they did.
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  #214  
Old 12-23-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lporcano View Post
Of course, because the council of child protection and the office of youth care are the ultimate experts in sailing and solo circumnavigation. I have some rigging questions, and also need to settle a disagreement regarding overlap at mark roundings. I will definitely be calling them to resolve those questions.

The fact of the matter is that there are widely differing views on nearly anything involving sailing. Look at any of the threads related to something as simple as repowering, or sailing without an engine. Some folks will tell you it is a near death wish to sail without a motor, while others will say it is perfectly safe, makes you a better sailor, and is far preferable to the expense and other issues related to hauling a giant motor and fuel for it all the way around the globe. Mind you, folks have circumnavigated with and without an engine, so there really is not a right answer for everyone.

The govt's opinion is no more qualified (probably less so) than anyone else, the only difference is they have the power to impose their will on Laura.

Our govt in the US decides that at 18 folks are too immature to have a beer, yet they are mature and responsible enough to elect our govt representatives, and to make life and death decisions in a battlefield. In other words, they are old enough to give their lives to protect the freedoms of the very same folks who won't let them drink a beer. There are vets that come home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing lags and arms, yet in the interest of protecting their health, the govt will arrest them for having a Budweiser. And you really believe this is the best way to start determining when folks are qualified enough to sail or make certain voyages?

Give me a break.
C'mon porc, I think you're getting your arguments conflated here. Pierre knows that particular governmental/court system far better than you or I. It's his country. You might not like what they decide - but I for one will give his word and opinion on this particular matter a lot more credence than any of ours.

Also - they're not imposing their "will", they're imposing the "law". Big, big difference.
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  #215  
Old 12-23-2009
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"That comparing a challenge like this to abuse is absurd."

I was not trying to compare abuse to sailing round the world, or any other goverment intervention. I just meant to show that in the western world governments regulate child-parent relationships under a wide variety of circumstances from abuse to drinking to toy purchases.
My only point was that the court intervention was not out of line with accepted practice in the west; that the Dutch authorities were required by law to make a decision and they did. As I said, I have no idea whether their decision was correct, but I can understand why they ruled as they did.
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  #216  
Old 12-23-2009
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From what I see, the age of consent in The Netherlands is 16. Pierre may know otherwise.

If so, she is a minor. Your argument that "there is no law that states how old a person must be to set off on a circumnavigation" is a bit specious. Of course there isn't. But there IS a law that says that until 16 she is under the care and is the responsibility of her parents.

And if her parents want to push her out to sea alone prior to that age - the court says they can't do that because they will not be providing the care that they are required to by law.

From a legal standpoint, it's really pretty simple. That the courts are bending somewhat to let her leave prior to her 16th birthday ought to score some cred with you.
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  #217  
Old 12-23-2009
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Then the simplest answer is for everyone involved to abide by the law. Encourage her to follow her dreams. Get her as prepared as possible. Then let her go for it on her 16th birthday. Everyone is happy.

Oh, yeah, the record.
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  #218  
Old 12-23-2009
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I haven't read this entire thread, so this point may have already been made...

Had she departed as planned but with little fanfare and hooplah, and then tragically perished in the first storm she encountered, I suspect the courts and agencies would be taken to task just as vociferously for not having intervened...
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  #219  
Old 12-23-2009
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As Will Rogers said, "You've got to go out on a limb sometimes, that is where the fruit is".

Was that before or after he died in a plane crash?
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  #220  
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Laura is a Minor. In The Netherlands an Adult is over18 years and and completely independent at 21. (an Adult is in most law-systems action capable). School-duty ends at 18. A substitute for school-duty is possible at 14 (many laws apply). Here started the problems for Laura. What we don’t know is how Father and Laura approached the officials. I think they overlooked this traject.

If you want to use the law you like or want it you have to be smart and watch your steps.

All we have now are the facts we read in the paper and more important on her webpage. So we can complain about government actions in the US, Holland or name a place, I then suggest to move to the Politics/Religion/War/Government thread.

Officials, Laura and family are now working on a complete detailed plan to make it possible for everyone that Laura sets sail. A complete detailed plan that should have been there from the beginning, that as we, as sailors, know is one of the most important things we need out of sight of land.

If there was a good plan (not a dream) and a right approach I doubt the government was involved as it is now.

I’m looking forward to a strong sailor-girl who is prepared.
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