13-year-old Laura Dekker around the world - Page 8 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #71  
Old 09-09-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,998
Thanks: 5
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 11
wind_magic has a spectacular aura about wind_magic has a spectacular aura about wind_magic has a spectacular aura about
14 is too young, simple as that.

I can't believe anyone would try to take the side of allowing a 14 year old child to sail a boat around the world, that is just stupid as hell.
__________________
What are you pretending not to know ?

Please support my
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #72  
Old 09-09-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,998
Thanks: 5
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 11
wind_magic has a spectacular aura about wind_magic has a spectacular aura about wind_magic has a spectacular aura about
Stupid &%^$ like this is why we all have to suffer laws that protect people from themselves, because some dumbasses can't exercise a little common sense unless they're told specifically what they can and can't do.
__________________
What are you pretending not to know ?

Please support my
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #73  
Old 09-09-2009
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northeast PA
Posts: 56
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
lporcano is on a distinguished road
seeya

Last edited by lporcano; 03-23-2010 at 01:03 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #74  
Old 09-09-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,998
Thanks: 5
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 11
wind_magic has a spectacular aura about wind_magic has a spectacular aura about wind_magic has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by lporcano View Post
I would like to point out that your comment really contradicts itself. The point of not having laws which interfere with personal choice is that what I deem reasonable is not what you may deem reasonable. Competing in the Vendee Globe gives you a 1 in 20 chance of dieing at sea. There are many people, perhaps a majority who would say that anyone who competes in such a race is an idiot and that it should be outlawed. Heck going to sea in any small craft is inherently dangerous, and by your reasoning some people may decide to outlaw sailing altogether since "some dumbasses can't exercise a little common sense". Even when it comes to kids, high school football can be very dangerous. There is a case right now where a kid died during a rigorous practice. There are kids who have died playing lacrosse and baseball as well. At what point do we add these sports to the list of prohibited activities, since dumbasses don't know how dangerous they are. What about the risks of simply growing up in a poverty stricken area. Growing up and going to school in the inner city is dangerous. Perhaps parents who decide to have kids in the inner city should have their parental rights suspended as well. A kid growing up in the inner city is more than 10 times as likely to be murdered, than one growing up in the suburbs. What kind of parent makes a decision like that, and should we suspend their parental rights for being dumbasses? Make all kids from the inner city a ward of the state? Or is it just the line that you personally draw as to what is reasonable that the entire world should follow?

Len Porcano
35 KNOTS
Len I appreciate your comment.

Firstly, the difference between the Vendee Globe and this situation is that the people who participate in the Vendee Globe are adults who are old enough to make stupid decisions for themselves. I don't care if Len goes out and competes in the Vendee Globe, I would cheer you on, because you are old enough to know what you are getting into. A child, on the other hand, simply doesn't know - children aren't just small adults with all adult capabilities, not only do they not possess the life experience to make good decisions, their minds aren't even fully working on an adult level yet, they aren't even fully capable human beings yet. Yes, sometimes children think they know what they are getting into, witness young teenage mothers, they obviously have the will to direct themselves into grown-up situations. I know a 14 year old who wants to buy an old Mustang and drive it on country roads, and he's perfectly capable of driving the car, but that doesn't mean its a good decision, or that he is grown up enough to make that decision - if his parents let him then who's to blame if he kills someone, him ? Or his parents for letting him ? Sometimes you just have to be the grown-up when your kid wants something.

Secondly, you point out a lot of things that are obviously bad for children for good reason, because we'd prefer children not be subjected to dangerous situations if it can be avoided. Maybe the situation isn't something that is easily avoided (living in the city), or maybe the activity doesn't have high risks - you choose baseball and football, show me some statistics that kids have a one in ten chance of dying while playing baseball and yes we should definitely not allow children to participate anymore. None of the things you point are anywhere near as dangerous as allowing a 14 year old child to sail a boat around the earth, something that even adults don't do in great numbers because it is so dangerous and takes such a toll on the body and mind.

It is ironic that I would be the one arguing this point since I actually do support children being given more freedom - I feel the drinking age is much too high, if you're going to let a 17 year old kid fight and die he can sure as hell have a beer. I also know some very responsible children who help out on farms who should be allowed to drive the family tractor on the roads, once they get about 14 or 15 they are old enough to drive a tractor on a dirt road, that's my opinion. But driving a tractor on a dirt road isn't exactly sailing a boat around the earth alone - it's a question of degree, and of common sense.

I don't care what philosophical argument you put forth, 14 is too young. 14 years old is a 9th grader just out of middle school. I know a girl that age who is only now being allowed to go to the mall with her friends.
__________________
What are you pretending not to know ?

Please support my
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #75  
Old 09-09-2009
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northeast PA
Posts: 56
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
lporcano is on a distinguished road
seeya

Last edited by lporcano; 03-23-2010 at 01:05 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #76  
Old 09-09-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,998
Thanks: 5
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 11
wind_magic has a spectacular aura about wind_magic has a spectacular aura about wind_magic has a spectacular aura about
Len, I understand what you are saying ...

Look, if she's sophisticated enough to sail around the world by herself then she should have no trouble at all talking her way out of state custody without any help. If we put your (Len's) mind into a 13 year old's body you'd have no trouble talking your way out of the jam she's in and getting underway, because you have the life experience, mental capability, etc, to put forth a convincing argument and to find a way to get what you want. If we put you in front of a judge you'd use whatever strategy necessary to be convincing, you'd be able to navigate through this entire situation, figure out what moves you need to make, etc, and eventually you'd get your way. That's what adults are capable of doing, they are able to work with what they have to get what they want, they are self-directed enough to get their way, they are smart enough and have enough life experience to know what the best way forward is. If the kid is so capable, fine, let her talk her way on to her boat and shove off, she shouldn't have any problem with that if she is resourceful enough to deal with a broken mast at sea, or patch the deck with something if it is leaking, etc. Brilliant kid like that should have been smart enough not to get put into state custody in the first place, she should have had enough wisdom to know how people were going to react to what she was doing and she should have figured out a way to deal with that without losing her liberty. If she needs mommy and daddy to save her now, won't she need them later ? You wouldn't need your mommy and daddy to come save you if your mind was in her body, you'd be able to figure out how to get what you want, why ? Because you are an adult who is capable of understanding the complexities involved, capable of creating promising strategies that lead to successful outcomes, etc. If the girl is relying on her parents for everything, to get her out of jams, etc, then she's got no business sailing on her own either.
__________________
What are you pretending not to know ?

Please support my
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by wind_magic; 09-09-2009 at 03:58 PM. Reason: sp
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #77  
Old 09-09-2009
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,904
Thanks: 3
Thanked 107 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by wind_magic View Post
It is ironic that I would be the one arguing this point since I actually do support children being given more freedom - I feel the drinking age is much too high, if you're going to let a 17 year old kid fight and die he can sure as hell have a beer.
At what age were young men 'drafted' into service on Men-of-War (at least up until the 1900's)? Wanna take a guess? As I said before, go watch Master and Commander which was actually fairly accurate. It was not that they could not find men to hold the officer roles, they were 'kids'. Were the 'kids' of that day more responsible than the kids of today? How many 9 yo's in Africa are holding AK-47's? Ever read any stories of the old west? When did the native Indians consider you coming of age?

Times have changed, you might say? But I cannot see sailing alone across the Atlantic with the 44 million gadgets and EPirbs being any more dangerous than serving on a frigate in her majesty's navy, and certainly not as dangerous as fighting in Africa.

My point is that governments have arbitraily set age-specific boundaries as when a person is mature enough to do 'something', whether it be drink, smoke, drive, serve in the military, or sail around the world. And yes, I also have a real problem that our government feels that you are too immature to know when to drink a beer, but you can be snatched up to Afghanistan with a machine gun and walk point in the terrorists back yard. Sorry, but what a hypocritical crock!

I have an issue, as a parent, of thinking that the government always knows what is best for us dumb citizens - or that someone else that does not even know me, knows what is best for my child. I ralize that there are some obvious examples of child abuse, I do not think this is one.

That being said, I do not support the idea of my children doing this and would not support it (at least not at this juncture in my life). I don't see the point or what there is to prove. I also feel it is a needless risk. Yet, I might say the same if they were 21. I simply would not have the option of holding them back. It all depends on them and their level of competence and WHY they are doing it. And the truth is that both sides of this argument (for and against) have made very valid reasons. I just get sick and tired of everyone else knowing what is best for everyone else.

- CD
__________________
Sailnet Moderator



1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #78  
Old 09-09-2009
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,559
Thanks: 2
Thanked 83 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
CD-
'How many 9 yo's in Africa are holding AK-47's? " Perhaps you have just shot your own point down?
Everyone, most especially the older men who put those AK's in those kids' hands, knows that a 9 year old boy is putty. No morality, no fear of death, no concept of it. So they take the kids and brainwash them and make them into little murderers that no one wants to shoot at--because after all, they're just kids. [sic]
Precisely the reason that many people and governments would not allow a 13-year old to go solo around the world, much less live without adult supervision. No matter how smart or wordly they may be, they are almost universally underdeveloped, and as such usually termed "persons in need of protection".
You want to get liberated and free from parental or other supervision at an early age? OK, maybe in Kenya you can go walkabout into the bush and do it. WTH, the lions got to eat too. But in most of the self-termed civilized world?
Nuh-uh, that's simply not the way things are done. You want to get married and make babies at 14? Again, nuh-uh, someone goes to jail for statutory rape. (Except perhaps in Iceland, where I understand the age of consent is 11.)

I suppose that if the parents--or child--couldn't figure out that they would have to deal with their own government's laws about their own situation before they got this far, that also only goes to prove that none of them, parent or child, is outstandingly capable of dealing with the rules that go along with life. They could have avoided the whole kerfluffle with a little Proper Prior Planning, either changing venues or leaving that one quietly.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #79  
Old 09-10-2009
Omatako's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 2,398
Thanks: 0
Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 11
Omatako will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
At what age were young men 'drafted' into service on Men-of-War (at least up until the 1900's)? Wanna take a guess? As I said before, go watch Master and Commander which was actually fairly accurate. It was not that they could not find men to hold the officer roles, they were 'kids'. Were the 'kids' of that day more responsible than the kids of today? How many 9 yo's in Africa are holding AK-47's? Ever read any stories of the old west? When did the native Indians consider you coming of age? - CD
Hey CD I get where you're coming from and at the end of the post I see that you actually don't support the concept but just for completeness on my side lets look at the above.

Firstly it is clear that the kids in Master & Commander type situations were not alone. They had others to assist with decision making and only once they were fully conversant with what they were doing did they make decisions of their own. And if the decisions were dodgy, someone experienced would be right there to correct any potentially dangerous situations. And also, mostly these kids got the breaks not because of what they were but who they were. No commoner would be given a position of command.

Secondly there are no events on record of African 9yo's making intelligent decisions with their AK47's. They're doing what their masters tell them to. And they're anything but responsible, mostly they're wired up on dope. It's unfortunately a bad analogy.

Look at the Jessica whats-her-face thread for my opinion on this. These kids are not skilled enough to handle the stuff that open sea sailing will chuck at them. They will have serious difficulty make the correct decisions when the chips are down and they're knackered/disoriented/scared/hungry. Hell, I find that difficult as an adult with many years of sailing at sea.

Yes it's true some kids mature quicker than others but 13 years old?? No, sorry, I don't buy it. The parent who allows this should be put on notice. When things go wrong and the kid dies - you go to jail. End of story.

End of rant

Oh and comparing the Vendee Globe with children single-handing around the world is also a little skewed. Vendee Globe sailors have extensive experience, the best kit money can buy, real-time satellite weather prediction of the best sort and teams of professionals watching their every move with the best telecoms kit available in the world.

I suspect this is not the case with these children. I stand prepared to be corrected.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

__________________

"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying."

Arthur C. Clarke

Last edited by Omatako; 09-10-2009 at 12:27 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #80  
Old 10-12-2009
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,021
Thanks: 82
Thanked 75 Times in 69 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Now here's a guy that even I'd listen to:

Whitbread/Volvo veteran Andrew Cape has urged teenage sailor Jessica Watson to reconsider her solo round the world attempt.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sailing to Save the World Mark Matthews Seamanship Articles 0 06-21-2002 08:00 PM
World Cruising Plans Sue & Larry Cruising Articles 0 02-27-2002 07:00 PM
World Cruising Routes Mark Matthews Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-27-2000 08:00 PM
The Olympic Primer Dan Dickison Racing Articles 0 06-25-2000 08:00 PM
Nautica Star Class World Championships Dobbs Davis Racing Articles 0 05-25-2000 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:31 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.