13-year-old Laura Dekker around the world - Page 9 - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #81 of 231 Old 10-12-2009
Senior Member
 
PCP777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rockwall
Posts: 124
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
It should be a decision that her parents make with her, not a decision by the government. Perhaps the caveat is, if she has to be rescued, than maybe her family should pick up the bill.

Peter Powers
1979 TR/FK #1390
~Stephanos~
Bayview Marina,
Lake Ray Hubbard
Dallas, TX


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PCP777 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #82 of 231 Old 10-12-2009
Reward for lost Kraken!
 
hellosailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,440
Thanks: 5
Thanked 131 Times in 128 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
'It should be a decision that her parents make with her, not a decision by the government."
Why? Is she the chattel goods property of her parents? Is her mother the property of her father, to be bought and sold at the market as well?

It has been said that the sign of an advanced society is how well it takes care of the elderly, the infirm, and others who cannot take care of themselves. That makes it the responsibility of society at large (the village, the government) to say "Pops, you're wrong,she can't go and if you can't take care of her, we'll do it for you."

Or, perhaps you can draw some rational line between society backing up the "supervision" of persons who need it (of any age and mental state) and the opposite approach, of saying the kids belong to the parents and can be treated like any other property. Logic must apply.
hellosailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #83 of 231 Old 10-13-2009
Senior Member
 
PCP777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rockwall
Posts: 124
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
'It should be a decision that her parents make with her, not a decision by the government."
Why? Is she the chattel goods property of her parents? Is her mother the property of her father, to be bought and sold at the market as well?

It has been said that the sign of an advanced society is how well it takes care of the elderly, the infirm, and others who cannot take care of themselves. That makes it the responsibility of society at large (the village, the government) to say "Pops, you're wrong,she can't go and if you can't take care of her, we'll do it for you."

Or, perhaps you can draw some rational line between society backing up the "supervision" of persons who need it (of any age and mental state) and the opposite approach, of saying the kids belong to the parents and can be treated like any other property. Logic must apply.
I don't consider children property to be bought and sold, but they are a parent's responsibility. Who better than the parents to know if their kid is ready to ride a bike or sail a boat at (X) age?


There are too many intrusive laws as it is.

Peter Powers
1979 TR/FK #1390
~Stephanos~
Bayview Marina,
Lake Ray Hubbard
Dallas, TX


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PCP777 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #84 of 231 Old 10-13-2009
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northeast PA
Posts: 56
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
chau

Last edited by lporcano; 03-23-2010 at 01:14 PM.
lporcano is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #85 of 231 Old 10-13-2009
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,346
Thanks: 147
Thanked 131 Times in 124 Posts
Rep Power: 9
     
Hey porc - my bad. I actually dropped that into the wrong thread regarding the wrong punk going for the circ. I fixed it.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
smackdaddy is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #86 of 231 Old 10-13-2009
Senior Member
 
PCP777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rockwall
Posts: 124
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lporcano View Post
The concerns that Andrew has expressed for Jessica don't really seem applicable to Laura. One is attempting to sail non-stop unassisted, which necessarily includes a long trip through the southern ocean. Laura has a much more conservative plan, which includes multiple stops and a trip through the Panama canal. The two voyages have very little in common.

If my daughter as a teenager had planned a trip like Laura's, I believe I would have supported her. If she planned one like Laura's, I probably would have discouraged her. In either case, I don't believe it is the government's position to usurp the parents role in making that decision.

Frankly I think that parents who push their daughters into beauty pageants, parading them around and teaching them to accept being objectified, do tremendous damage to their kids. And in that case it is not a risk they are taking, but a known consequence. Of course that is how I feel, and I am not lobbying for laws to outlaw these pageants even if I see them as inherently evil. Tolerating other viewpoints comes with liberty, people should learn to deal with it.

Len Porcano
35 KNOTS
This.

Peter Powers
1979 TR/FK #1390
~Stephanos~
Bayview Marina,
Lake Ray Hubbard
Dallas, TX


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PCP777 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #87 of 231 Old 10-13-2009
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
A bit confused, aren't you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lporcano View Post
The concerns that Andrew has expressed for Jessica don't really seem applicable to Laura. One is attempting to sail non-stop unassisted, which necessarily includes a long trip through the southern ocean. Laura has a much more conservative plan, which includes multiple stops and a trip through the Panama canal. The two voyages have very little in common.

If my daughter as a teenager had planned a trip like Laura's, I believe I would have supported her. If she planned one like Laura's, I probably would have discouraged her. In either case, I don't believe it is the government's position to usurp the parents role in making that decision.

Frankly I think that parents who push their daughters into beauty pageants, parading them around and teaching them to accept being objectified, do tremendous damage to their kids. And in that case it is not a risk they are taking, but a known consequence. Of course that is how I feel, and I am not lobbying for laws to outlaw these pageants even if I see them as inherently evil. Tolerating other viewpoints comes with liberty, people should learn to deal with it.

Len Porcano
35 KNOTS

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #88 of 231 Old 10-13-2009
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northeast PA
Posts: 56
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
chau

Last edited by lporcano; 03-23-2010 at 01:13 PM.
lporcano is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #89 of 231 Old 10-13-2009
Reward for lost Kraken!
 
hellosailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,440
Thanks: 5
Thanked 131 Times in 128 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
" Who better than the parents "
Ah, the same parents who won't use car seats or seat belts or bike helmets even after they've been ticketed for not doing so?
Unfortunately "parents" and "governments" are neither necessarily intelligent beings capable of protecting those who need protection.
When I was a kid there were no seaet belts and we could ride on the rear package shelf of the car on long trips to amuse ourselves. Hey, it was normal.
Today I see mothers heaving the baby stroller out into traffic at the crosswalk--before they look or step past the curb line themselves. You could swear they were trying to throw the kid under a car. Or wait, isn't that another news story, "Mom drowns three in car". "Child left in car, dies of heat". "Oh, I went it to work and forgot I had the kid in the back seat."

While I'm also vehemently against intrusive government, as far as I can tell, the only requirement for "parenting" is that something stayed in one place long enough to get pregnant. These days even five gallon buckets come with mandatory warning labels, because enough parents have allowed or encouraged their baby to play with the partly full bucket, unsupervised, and the kid toppled in and drowned. NO JOKE.

So, do the parents know if this kid is mature enough to circumnavigate? Maybe, but I'd rather see some objective board put her through, say, two weeks of Outward Bound solo screening to see another opinion. Or an eight hour test suite, or SOMETHING besides the "I can always hatch a couple more" opinion.

Heck, with only one crew on board, the USCG could turn her back as "manifestly unsafe and unfit" simply for not being able to keep a proper watch, in conformation with US & international law alike.
hellosailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #90 of 231 Old 10-13-2009
snake charmer, cat herder
 
zeehag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: refitting a formosa in exotic tropical locations....
Posts: 1,790
Thanks: 8
Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
how do we know if the 9-12 yr olds in other countries who are married and pregnant are able to stand up to the rigors of motherhood or fatherhood........are we her judge and jury? do we actually have a basis for our opinions?? will anyone take us seriously?/ why d o we impose our opinions and beliefs on other cultures?? we are raised differently than others are---even within our own boundaries....there is a lot for everyone to learn---even the kids sailing--look at the jessica girl in the pink boat---cannot set her alarms before going below to sleep even in the face of approaching ship traffic.....go figger-----sailing around the world is a great opportunity as well as a great danger. she can learn a lot from her trip --more than is offered in school.....is up to her to figger that out......and up to her parents to figger out if she is "mature enough" to live through it....we can make popcorn and watch with or without bated breath......halleluliah, she is not forbidden to be able to do this by her government-----
zeehag is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sailing to Save the World Mark Matthews Seamanship Articles 0 06-21-2002 08:00 PM
World Cruising Plans Sue & Larry Cruising Articles 0 02-27-2002 07:00 PM
World Cruising Routes Mark Matthews Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-27-2000 08:00 PM
The Olympic Primer Dan Dickison Racing Articles 0 06-25-2000 08:00 PM
Nautica Star Class World Championships Dobbs Davis Racing Articles 0 05-25-2000 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome