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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #1  
Old 12-12-2002
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WASSERNUT is on a distinguished road
can it be?

Thanks Denr; Nice to be back, boat needs rockin''


Der Vassernutten!
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  #2  
Old 12-13-2002
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Denr is an unknown quantity at this point
can it be?

Welcome back to a sailor that has probably forgotten more about sailing than most of us will ever know about it! Now... what can we argue about? ARRRHHH
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Old 12-14-2002
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can it be?

Denr; got an unusual project this week . convert a Goetz43 to a bluewater cruising boat.

Rod rigging
7'' draft
no tankage
no furling
no elecronics
no nuthin''

Interesting job, looking forward to it.
I''d really like to hear your input. I think.
Any body else?

wassernut
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  #4  
Old 12-14-2002
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can it be?

The rod rigging, 7 foot draft and the lack of furling sound like a good start for a 43 foot offshore cruiser,

Of course you will need to add tankage, elecronics, an interior and some ground tackle handling gear.

Whose design are we talking about here and of what vintage?

Jeff
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Old 12-16-2002
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Jeff; interesting response.
The boat is an 80''s vintage. Cold moulded/cored.
Bendy,frac rig.
A real Thursday night screamer I''m told.
But.....
The new owner wants to take her single/short handed round about.
Raise the gooseneck. Gotta have a dodger/bimini.
Pesky traveller right ,smack dab in the middle of the cockpit.
How bout'' an arch.
Panels.
Relocate the traveller and backstay
Shorten the spar.
Reduce the draft
Watermakers
Housebank.
Favorite furler/s

OK Jeff before you explode, I know what your''re going to say. Wassernut are you crazy?
It''s not my boat but the fellow is quite serious about making this work. I''d like to help him. Beth and Evan had a good article in a recent SAIL on traditional vs modern cuising boat think.
What to do do Jeff?

Wassernut?
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Old 12-16-2002
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WASSERNUT is on a distinguished road
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Jeff; interesting response.
The boat is an 80''s vintage. Cold moulded/cored.
Bendy,frac rig.
A real Thursday night screamer I''m told.
But.....
The new owner wants to take her single/short handed round about.
Raise the gooseneck. Gotta have a dodger/bimini.
Pesky traveller right ,smack dab in the middle of the cockpit.
How bout'' an arch.
Panels.
Relocate the traveller and backstay
Shorten the spar.
Reduce the draft
Watermakers
Housebank.
Favorite furler/s

OK Jeff before you explode, I know what your''re going to say. Wassernut are you crazy?
It''s not my boat but the fellow is quite serious about making this work. I''d like to help him. Beth and Evan had a good article in a recent SAIL on traditional vs modern cuising boat think.
What to do do Jeff?

Wassernut?
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  #7  
Old 12-16-2002
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can it be?

I guess it depends on the particular design of the boat. There were some good cruisable boats built that meet that desciption. For example when you say that the boat is "is an 80''s vintage. Cold moulded/cored. Bendy,frac rig" it sounds like a wooden Farr 38 that I looked at, and which had been cruised down through the Carribean. Carrying that example furtehr my Farr 38 had been single-handed from CapeTown, South Africa to the Chesapeake Bay and other sisterships have also done a lot of successful offshore single-handed miles, so a boat of that general description can work as a cruiser if properly designed.

But many old race boats really were not designed for that kind of abuse. Even if you can modify the boat to be more suitable it is not as simple as just doing the things that you suggest. Often the rig is so flexible and fragile that the boat cannot be tacked and jibed single-handed without bringing down the rig. Often the internal structure of these older designs were designed for the comparatively light loadings of a fractional bendy rig. When you shorten the rig and reconfigure it so that it will stay in the boat during a crash jibe, the rig becomes stiffer and so can overload the boat substantially.

As I read your list of work you are really altering this poor old girl a lot. Raising the boom will potentially give the boat a lee helm. Midships travellers on big fractional rigger mainsails make it hard to shape a big mainsail without big winches or a lot of purchase with means a lot of friction. The way that you sail a big fractional rigger you almost need to have the traveller in the cockpit to get enough sail shape control.

Then he is talking about cutting down the keel. IOR era boats tended to be quite tender requiring a large crew on the rail to stay on their feet. They also were pretty small in area for the speeds that the boats normally sailed. When you reduce sail area, you reduce boat speed and in theory need to add keel area. Reducing keel depth and area can only result in a very tender boat with poor windward performance.

When you talk about adding all of the other stuff, I really have to think that this guy bought the wrong boat, because when he is done all that he will have left intact is the hull and the hull form of a 1980''s era IOR boat, while better than earlier IOR hull forms was still a pretty lousy shape for a boat.

As anyone who has followed my posts know, I am a major fan of modern boats for cruising. By this I do not mean IOR era boats which to a great extent is what gave modern boats such a bad reputation as cruising boats. He would be much better off selling what he has and buying a non-IOR design from the same era. They are a little more expensive to buy but in the long run they will need less modifications and be a better boat for cruising.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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Old 12-16-2002
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can it be?

Oh yeah, as to what I do, I am an architect (buildings) with my own practice, but I have worked as a yacht designer and in repair yards at different times in my life. I have sailed for 40 years and have always taken an interest in things nautical and the technical side of things. I race, cruise and single-hand alot.

Regards
Jeff
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Old 12-17-2002
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Jeff;

You are right on. I have considered each of your points in depth. Couldn''t agree more. This is an interesting case where I have entered "after the fact" Guy just bought the boat, has made up his mind, he''s gonna'' do it. I profess to know a thing or two about what it takes to cruise. Thus the connection.

Having also earned a a degree in Arch., worked on Charley Morgan''s boards, have bilge water in my veins and can''t help but want to help people make the right decisions when it comes their boats,we have a similar perspective. Your info is well received.


And if I wanted a sparring match I''d raise Denr...........
Standing by;
Der Vassernutten
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Old 12-17-2002
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can it be?

Architecture degree and worked for Charlie Morgan? You wouldn''t have attended Univ of Fla''s architecture school? Perhaps in the 1970''s?

I am not really sparing with you but this whole idea seems like a really expensive, bad idea. I guess this sounds like a case of a fool and his money being easily separated but it should be a fun project for you.

Jeff
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