Help with headsail for reaching/downwind

[witzgall]

Hi all;

Our boat is a fractionally rigged sloop. The rig is almost identical to a J-29, to give you an idea, but a heavier boat (10-12k lbs.). Our current headsail is a 135%. We also have a symmetrical spinnaker.
I am starting to think about what would be a good sail for reaching, and downwind, other than that spinnaker. The goal is to get faster speeds in moderate conditions while reaching/downwind.

My thoughts revolve around creating a bowsprit with 2/2.5" schedule 80 aluminum pipe, to get the sail out in front. But what kind of sail? What exactly is a "Code Zero"?

I imagine using low stretch line as the halyard, maybe with one of those fancy furlers for such sails.

Chris

Anyone else make their own sprit?

[sailingfool]

I think you are barking up the right tree for sure, an asymetrical is the way to go for easy off-wind cruising. You might take a look at this kit:
Sailing World - Carbon Sprit Kit by Forte either to buy or to see how a professional does it. If you can set the sprite up to rotate, so you can **** it to windward, you will get even more bang for the buck.
You need to see a sailmaker for a asymetrical that will fit you custom rig result, although I bet there are a growing number oif used racing asyms around.

[blt2ski]

Go ahead and make your own sprit if you like, but there are at lest two companys making aluminum sprits you hook to the anchor roller etc. Forespar is another along with Forte.

An AS will net you some speed in lighter winds reaching, even pointing to 60'ish degrees true. Been there on my boat, doing 5'ish knots in 6-8 knots of wind with a 6500 lb 30 mast head setup. My AS is about 580#, I can supposidly take up to around 700# of AS. I have to admit, for the sailing I use this for, the one I have is nice. If I want to go to a 700# spin, it will be a Symetric for racing, and more dead down wind runs.

I run my AS off the bow, but some folks with MH rigs have put upwards of a 3' sprit from forespar off the front with great results.

Marty

[Faster]

Our son retrofitted his Ranger 29 masthead with a short sprit and an A sail from a J-80 - cleaned up in the Thursday night series here in town the last two years.

Our own boat is similarly rigged to yours, witz, but perhaps a more severe 3/4 frac. So far we are getting by using a standard symm spinn with pole - but there have been days that an Asymm would have been interesting. We(I) still prefer the deeper capabilities of a conventional spinnaker. Also with the small foretriangle, for a 35' boat the sail is still easy to handle under normal conditions.

Designing a sprit mount that will swing side to side and still be strong enough is a bit more complicated - but doable. Many add-on sprits use a small bobstay to handle the upward load of the sail, esp if you're going for significant projection.

[witzgall]

The Kits look very nice, but that is $$$ that I would rather put that into the sail. Here is what I am thinking. Hollaender makes fittings used in safety rail systems that are quite robust. I have used them on our arch, to mount solar panels, and for braces. Assuming Schedule 80 2" pipe is strong enough (and I don't know that yet), I can bolt a articulating foot that would hold the inboard end. Then the bow end would be held in place with either a large bolt across the top, or something else that hollaender makes (gotta look over their site for ideas).

The pipe is held in the fittings by special set screws. Sounds ho-key, but it works well. On the outboard end, I would mount a simple stainless bolt with eye.

I need to get a length of cheap galvanized pipe to layout the concept before buying the more expensive aluminum pipe.

What kind of loads would this all need to withstand? Anyone know?

Chris

[bubb2]

If you are not aware of them.

ATN Home Page -- sailing, sail, storm, gale, tacker, spinnaker, sleeve, stasher, flasher, douser, chute scoop, sally, case, furler, roller, reefed sail, single handed, short handed, cruising, transatlantic, round the world, Jules Verne Trophy, BOC, w

[witzgall]

Yeah, I have seen the ads for the ATN tacker, but I have never seen one in person. It might be interesting to try and make one. It looks like the material is slippery plastic, so that it can ride up and down using the topping lift to keep it in check. I wonder if a cut open boat fender, with some webbing sewn on, would be slippery enough? I have an old industrial sewing machine that might be able to do that.

Just thinking out loud.

Chris

[Jeff_H]

I do not think that you will be happy adding a fractional assymetrical to heavy fractional rigger. For the most part you will not see much of an improvement over your genoa at shallow broad reaching angles (120 to perhaps 140 degrees) and you will have a hard time flying the assym at deeper sailing angles.

The reasons that assyms work so well on lighter fractional rigged boats is that their light weight allows them to make significant VMG gains by sailing hotter reaching angles. Large assyms allow these lighter boats to make the same speed gains but at deeper angles. When you talk about a heavier boat, there aren't the kinds of big speed through the water gains that a lighter boat experiences and so there is a net loss in VMG when sailing at the hot angles that make assyms so appealing.

I my experience is that if you sail short handed you are more likely to get a wrap with an assym than a symmetrical spinnaker making them generally harder to handle short-handed. Since you already have a symmetrical chute, i would suggest that you stick to using that.

Jeff

[bubb2]

Think about these also. The reason I point these out is you could fly the spinnaker that you have. I have a ATN and a Asymmetrical and it works well for me, without messing around with a bow spirit.

Neil Pryde Parrel Beads

[witzgall]

Jeff and Bubb;

Wow, good info to consider. We have a dousing sock, so getting rid of the pole wold make things easier for sailing with two. I am going to look more into making a ATN like device. Even if I end up buying theirs, it will prove the concept without spending the $$$. -Edit I Just took a look at those Neal Pryde beads. For $45.00, that seems like short money to try the concept out.



Thanks for the insight.

Chris