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  #21  
Old 09-30-2009
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" several hundred feet of chain in the bow" .... at about 1 to 1.5 lb.ft., that HAS the increase the 'moment' (mass X distance) from the CG.
250lb. X 20ft. = 500 ft.lb. of uneeded 'moment'. Ive often wondered why boats dont have heavy windlasses & chain stowage near the mast ... and a long under-deck 'pipe/channel' running from the mast base to the bow to carry the chain. (.... this from a person who has a 100 gal. fuel tank in the 'bow'. Needless to say, I rarely fill that tank)


Most of this 'design family' from Bob Perry have quite a large angle on the bow ... not a sleek angle that pierces into waves such as on racing boats. But, being so 'blunt' you have to be careful if the bow is plunging so the plunge doesnt stop the boat.

Last edited by RichH; 09-30-2009 at 01:16 PM.
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  #22  
Old 09-30-2009
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From the Op's descriptions it sounds like what we frequently get on the Great Lakes. Taking a short sea beam on makes for, at best, a pretty lousy ride. Taking the seas on the quarter works much better (close reach/broad reach).

Beating into a stiff chop like that is very wet for us (low freeboard), so we usually ease off a bit for comfort's sake but she'll go ( she's pretty skinny)
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  #23  
Old 09-30-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewMac View Post
blt2ski - thanks for the recommendation.

smack - I had put a 3rd reef into the main as the wind built to over 40. I was making very little headway, but kept feeling like it was the waves slowing me down as much as anything. in retrospect, I think I probably left the staysl up too long. I put the engine on when I tried coming about a couple of times, only to have the sea smack me back - fact is that I didn't have enough omentum to come about, which in retrospect makes me think I was overpowered and left the staysl up too long.
This may seem counter-intuitive, but it seems to me that you were underpowered, either because you didn't have enough sail up, or you were way overtrimmed (probably the latter, from your description of a reefed main and staysail). I have a hard time reconciling the notion that you had too much sail area up with your description that you lacked enough speed to tack.
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  #24  
Old 09-30-2009
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dan - thanks for the input. I hear what you're saying. Rewinding it in my mind though, what RichH said makes a lot of sense to me. I think part of my problem was that, by the time I tried to come about, I had moved to close hauled and may have even been pinching a little. The reason for this was that, at that point, I still intended to get to Winter Harbor, but had shifted course to take me over Long Island and under Swan Island (ie turning more northerly and into the wind) in the hope that this route would provide more stable sea conditions. Once I got on that point of sail, Decision was what RichH referred to as "hobbying horseing" - bobbing excessively bow to stern and, with the short steep waves, the sea kept grabbing the bow - I think all of this lead to a loss of momentum prior to trying to come about - in other words, I'm not sure it was the sail area so much as the point of sail. In retrospect, I think I would have been better served by falling off a little and trying a close reach to see how the boat responded...
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Old 09-30-2009
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cormeum ---- what great lake do you sail? on lake superior day before yesterday we had gail warnings & forecasts of 27ft waves (i didn't go out)
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Old 09-30-2009
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Beam on is a bad idea particularly once the height equals the beam as it gives a good chance of going over besides being more uncomfortable. Hard on the wind gives more chance of being stopped by the waves, particularly if you are hobbyhorsing, although the the odd wave over the bow is not a worry. You need some power in your sails and might be better easing off the wind a little.
Around 40 knots progress to windward is likely to be slow. Downwind is easier but you are also at the point where you might be thinking of say heaving to, depending on where you are going, and the capacity of the crew which is less than that of the boat.
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Old 09-30-2009
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How was your slot looking? The tendency to blade out the headsail in really strong winds can choke the slot and rob the boat of forward thrust. That will make for a jerky ride. As winds get stronger, the gap needs to get wider to accommodate the air volume. This is especially an issue on cutter rigs, where the slots are tighter than usual -- one reason cutters suffer to weather in higher winds. Was your mainsail luff "soft" at all? My barely-competent-to-speak instinct would be to keep the staysail full and drawing and to reef the main as far as needed to hold your heel angle in bounds. You want the boat on its feet and driving. Gonna be wet.

Your experience sounds like a bad case of "sailing to weather in strong winds and short-period chop." There are ways to make it less horrible, but it's always punishing no matter what. Your new boat can take it if you can!
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  #28  
Old 09-30-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captbillc View Post
cormeum ---- what great lake do you sail? on lake superior day before yesterday we had gail warnings & forecasts of 27ft waves (i didn't go out)
Saw that We're on Michigan: sustained in the 30's, gusts to 45, waves 12' or so ( we didn't go out either)

Last edited by cormeum; 09-30-2009 at 05:47 PM.
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  #29  
Old 09-30-2009
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I had both the main and the staysl (not club foot, but with a forlead) hauled in as far as I could in order to flatten them as much as possible. I can't say I remember how the slot looked, but will keep my eye on it next time around. Possible that I should have allowed the staysl more draft to power it up a bit, which goes to daniel's point that I may have been over trimmed. As for wet, I had the tops of a couple waves come over the dodger - felt like someone had hurled a bathtub full of cold water right into my face...
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Old 09-30-2009
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OK - a couple thoughts:

Sails hauled in tight and flattened, all the wind can do is heel the boat over -- you're not going to generate much forward lift. Punching into a sea, you're not going to make much headway anyway, so it does seem it would be better to ease the sheets just a bit and foot off. Taking a few greenies over the bow really shouldn't be a big deal, but if you are footing off and have good speed, you should be able to maneuver your way through many of the seas, climbing the waves at an angle instead of trying to punch through them head on. Hobby horsing, though, is a killer. Get the weight out of the ends!

As to the other question about sailing beam to the sea, my opinion is that you should be alright so long as you are able to maintain good speed and maneuverability (again) such that you are able to actively steer your way through (heading up a bit -- it doesn't take much -- into the oncoming wave and bearing off again as the wave passes under you.)
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