Mooring vs. Slip - Page 4 - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #31 of 36 Old 10-09-2009
Senior Member
 
sailortjk1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Porter, IN
Posts: 4,647
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 11
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgiguere View Post
We like the mooring best for many reasons:

Easy to sail on and off short handed. Boat is head-to-wind and sails go up and down without a hassle...even single handed.

Fewer lines to deal with...in a slip you need Breast and Springs lines on both sides with enough scope to ride the tide (so you don't find you boat hanging from its lines).

Pain in the butt to come and go...dodge other boats, navigat narrow passages with an engine that pulls to port in reverse...etc. Means fewer sailing days...easier to put around from the dock.

The boat is just happier on a mooring.

Better ventilation in hot weather...put up a wind-scoop.

Better visibility...no big power boats flanking you and ruining your visibility...

and many more, but it's late and can't think any more.

Moe
Crishelle
Chris Craft Apache 37 S&S sloop
I'll add a couple

Privacy from your neighbors,
no nosey dock neighbor walkng past at 5 am,
no loud stereo blasting from you next door neighbor who loves Rap or Hip Hop,

Courtney is My Hero

If a man is to be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most - E.B. White
sailortjk1 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 36 Old 10-09-2009
Senior Member
 
pdqaltair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,515
Thanks: 1
Thanked 49 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Skip the hose as chafe gear - it is as bad as the pipe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrarieRose View Post
I am a huge fan of moorings over marinas, the sailors slum. However I NEVER trust a mooring I didn't build or inspect before using. Chains rust, ropes rot and some are just not up to the challenge of holding either a 30,000 pound boat, or a bleach bottle depending on how old/insufficient it really is. In addition to how well it is built you also have to be careful about how you lead your lines. I built a "Bomb Proof" mooring a few years ago, and had complete faith in it. I was the week link. I led the two 3/4'' lines that connected to two 3/8'' chains by a massive galvanised swivel, through my hawse pipes and onto a solid post. That was my undoing. In a storm, 72 knot gusts recorded nearby, the lines chafed through at the pipes. I had chafe gear in place, leather and exhaust hose. Had I led the lines over the bow roller I would have been fine. Instead I had a winter in a boat yard and a big insurance premium increase. All that said if you don't know for a fact that the mooring you are about to tie to is in good shape, drop your anchor, thats what they are there for, just use lots of scope.

PS is there a way to change my screen name? One typo and I am going to look like an idiot every time I post.
Hose isn't slippery and trhe rain/spray can't keep it wet inside. Go to tubular webbing. I have used this for many years, it's cheap, and the wear goes to zero where protected; the line will be retired from sun-wear elsewhere.

BlueWater 2" Climb-Spec Tubular Webbing at REI.com

(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
pdqaltair is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #33 of 36 Old 10-09-2009
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,826
Thanks: 19
Thanked 213 Times in 162 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP777 View Post
People talk about dock damage but if you tie your boat up properly with good lines that should really never happen.

That is far from the reality in a real storm. During the Perfect Storm the boat I worked on at the time was at the most protected dock in Little Harbor, NH.

She was 55 feet and when the break water at the mouth of the harbor went under water they had four to five foot breakers coming in on top of high winds. I was at sea at the time on a delivery and could not help and had my own set of problems.

Sadly the boat was snapping 3/4" dock lines like guitar strings. The minute the dock line came in contact with anything, gunwhale, dock etc. it would snap like a shot gun. There were four guys there for nearly 20 hours replacing dock lines, fenders and running the engines to lighten loads yet the boat still sustained well over 100k in damage. The owner dropped off a spool of 3/4" three strand and they went through the entire spool in 20 hours even end over ending some lines. Low tide offerd some respite from the breakers but the winds still howled

The photos below are the result of a Nor'Easter at a dock. These boats were secured as best as could be but still bit the docks and sank.


A few days after the storm:


My boat survived that storm, on her mooring, without even so much as a scratch.

Here's a video of that storm. All the boats on moorings in this cove survived too.

I'll take a mooring over a dock any day of the week in a real storm..


YouTube - Why Not To Cut Corners On Your Mooring

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.



Last edited by Maine Sail; 10-09-2009 at 08:59 AM.
Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #34 of 36 Old 10-09-2009
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,826
Thanks: 19
Thanked 213 Times in 162 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrarieRose View Post
I was the week link. I led the two 3/4'' lines that connected to two 3/8'' chains by a massive galvanised swivel, through my hawse pipes and onto a solid post. That was my undoing. In a storm, 72 knot gusts recorded nearby, the lines chafed through at the pipes. I had chafe gear in place, leather and exhaust hose. Had I led the lines over the bow roller I would have been fine..
Depending upon your bow roller you probably would have seen a failure mode even sooner. Bow rollers on most boats are not designed for storm force loads.


That picture below caused by a regular old working anchor not even a mooring.

Your pendants failed most likely due to heat fatigue. Any sort of "hose" is a terribly bad idea, and leather is not much better. A woven textile is a far better chafe protector because it allows the pendant to remain wet and cooler as water easily passes through woven materials. This allows cooling and the heat can also escape helping the pendant stay cool and preventing heat fatigue failures. Nylon begins to fail at 300f which is actually easy to reach under the right chafe conditions. Slide down a rope and tell me how quickly heat develops and burns you hands. Now concentrate that heat in one location for hours inside a water proof hose that acts as a heat insulator.

You also want LONG pendants. Sharp angles over a bow chock lead to compression of the pendants fibers generating even more heat at the chock/pendant intersection. A long pendant with a low angle will see considerably less chafe & heat generation than a short one with a steep angle.

This is a good pendant angle:



This is a horrendous pendant angle, plus the anchor will like case a failure too, either way this boat is doomed to a higher potential for failure in a storm:


ALWAYS remove your anchor before storms or anytime it may come in contact with the pendant. This is a fairly new pendant with perhaps a month or two of use in CALM conditions. The anchor has already begun to eat this very expensive Yale Polydine Pendant. Imagine what will happen in a storm.
.

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.



Last edited by Maine Sail; 10-09-2009 at 09:31 AM.
Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #35 of 36 Old 10-09-2009
Senior Member
 
PCP777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rockwall
Posts: 124
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
That is far from the reality in a real storm. During the Perfect Storm the boat I worked on at the time was at the most protected dock in Little Harbor, NH.

She was 55 feet and when the break water at the mouth of the harbor went under water they had four to five foot breakers coming in on top of high winds. I was at sea at the time on a delivery and could not help and had my own set of problems.

Sadly the boat was snapping 3/4" dock lines like guitar strings. The minute the dock line came in contact with anything, gunwhale, dock etc. it would snap like a shot gun. There were four guys there for nearly 20 hours replacing dock lines, fenders and running the engines to lighten loads yet the boat still sustained well over 100k in damage. The owner dropped off a spool of 3/4" three strand and they went through the entire spool in 20 hours even end over ending some lines. Low tide offerd some respite from the breakers but the winds still howled

The photos below are the result of a Nor'Easter at a dock. These boats were secured as best as could be but still bit the docks and sank.


A few days after the storm:


My boat survived that storm, on her mooring, without even so much as a scratch.

Here's a video of that storm. All the boats on moorings in this cove survived too.

I'll take a mooring over a dock any day of the week in a real storm..


YouTube - Why Not To Cut Corners On Your Mooring
If I had to deal with tide or weather like that I'd have to agree with you. My opinion is based on being in a land locked lake. Crazy pics and video, thank you.

Peter Powers
1979 TR/FK #1390
~Stephanos~
Bayview Marina,
Lake Ray Hubbard
Dallas, TX


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PCP777 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #36 of 36 Old 10-09-2009
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pender Island
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Depending upon your bow roller you probably would have seen a failure mode even sooner. Bow rollers on most boats are not designed for storm force loads.


That picture below caused by a regular old working anchor not even a mooring.

Your pendants failed most likely due to heat fatigue. Any sort of "hose" is a terribly bad idea, and leather is not much better. A woven textile is a far better chafe protector because it allows the pendant to remain wet and cooler as water easily passes through woven materials. This allows cooling and the heat can also escape helping the pendant stay cool and preventing heat fatigue failures. Nylon begins to fail at 300f which is actually easy to reach under the right chafe conditions. Slide down a rope and tell me how quickly heat develops and burns you hands. Now concentrate that heat in one location for hours inside a water proof hose that acts as a heat insulator.

You also want LONG pendants. Sharp angles over a bow chock lead to compression of the pendants fibers generating even more heat at the chock/pendant intersection. A long pendant with a low angle will see considerably less chafe & heat generation than a short one with a steep angle.

This is a good pendant angle:



This is a horrendous pendant angle, plus the anchor will like case a failure too, either way this boat is doomed to a higher potential for failure in a storm:


ALWAYS remove your anchor before storms or anytime it may come in contact with the pendant. This is a fairly new pendant with perhaps a month or two of use in CALM conditions. The anchor has already begun to eat this very expensive Yale Polydine Pendant. Imagine what will happen in a storm.
.
Thanks to everyone for posting better ideas regarding chafe gear. I have certainly changed my materials used for this purpose since the incident two years ago. As far as bow rollers go, mine is a 1'' stainless post horisontally mounted throught a bushing and through a 1/4'' stainless bracket through my bowsprit and 3.5'' bronze rollers. Nothing short of the hand of god is going to bend that. That said, 24 hours at 70+ knots of wind feels pretty godlike.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, and yes, I still would rather a mooring to a dock any day except provisioning day.

Still waiting for advice on how to correct the spelling of my screen name.
PrarieRose is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mediterranean Mooring John Kretschmer Seamanship Articles 0 12-22-2003 07:00 PM
The Mechanics of Mooring Mark Matthews Seamanship Articles 0 05-19-2002 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome