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  #11  
Old 10-25-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poopdeckpappy View Post
Did you know that with all the studies done on all the Albatross species on Midway atoll not one mentions plastic ingestion as a leading cause of death, they do mention Building lights, Airplane strikes, electric lines and even drowning in heavy rain and flooded nest, but not plastic
And add longline fishing to that list. Albatrosses lay one egg per season with one parent minding the chick while the other spends countless hours foraging. Some of them end up getting caught on longlines and so never return. Eventually the other parent needs to leave the nest to feed... and so the chick also dies.

The RSPB: Save the albatross: The threats

Would be a shame to solve the wrong problem.
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2009
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Also introduced predators, so pick your soapbox & bandwagon wisely
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  #13  
Old 10-25-2009
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poopdeckpappy - No sense arguing, Ecology is the newest religion. It has it's zealots, it's belief system, it's branches and most scary it's currently trendy...
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Old 10-25-2009
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Ok, so let's talk about the agenda for a second then...to clean up our waters? Even if these things are being fabricated/exploited/whatever, it is to make our waters cleaner and to better the planet for future generations...so they can enjoy what we have. The fact is that there ARE thousands of animals ingesting these plastics and whatnot, the albatross is just one of them. So, while they may be exaggerating the facts (which isn't confirmed), this is one instance that I wouldn't really take a strong stance against it...IMPO.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coreyboy18 View Post
Ok, so let's talk about the agenda for a second then...to clean up our waters? Even if these things are being fabricated/exploited/whatever, it is to make our waters cleaner and to better the planet for future generations...so they can enjoy what we have. The fact is that there ARE thousands of animals ingesting these plastics and whatnot, the albatross is just one of them. So, while they may be exaggerating the facts (which isn't confirmed), this is one instance that I wouldn't really take a strong stance against it...IMPO.
You're missing the point that as soon as it becomes OK to exaggerate the issues of one topic then it becomes OK to do it for all issues. This issue can stand on the facts that waste plastic management is probably one of the most horrendous disasters of the modern age. Use the facts to educate the public, not exaggerate them to curry sympathy.

You know what happens when it becomes OK to exaggerate? It becomes OK to bend the truth and even lie.

Quote:
On August 18, 2000, journalist Jane Akre won $425,000 in a court ruling where she charged she was pressured by Fox News management and lawyers to air what she knew and documented to be false information.

The real information: she found out cows in Florida were being injected with RBGH, a drug designed to make cows produce milk – and, according to FDA-redacted studies, unintentionally designed to make human beings produce cancer.

Fox lawyers, under pressure by the Monsanto Corporation (who produced RBGH), rewrote her report over 80 times to make it compatible with the company’s requests. She and her husband, journalist Steve Wilson, refused to air the edited segment.

In February 2003, Fox appealed the decision and an appellate court and had it overturned. Fox lawyers argued it was their first amendment right to report false information. In a six-page written decision, the Court of Appeals decided the FCC’s position against news distortion is only a “policy,” not a “law, rule, or regulation.”
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  #16  
Old 10-25-2009
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At the risk of feeding trolls, I'll help you with the Wikipedia article and the referenced sources;
Quote:
Impact on wildlife



The remnants of a Laysan Albatross chick which was fed plastic by its parents resulting in death (same pic as those pointed to in the original post)
Some of these long-lasting plastics end up in the stomachs of marine birds and animals,[21] including sea turtles, and the Black-footed Albatross.[22] Besides the particles' danger to wildlife, the floating debris can absorb organic pollutants from seawater, including PCBs, DDT, and PAHs.[23] Aside from toxic effects,[24] when ingested, some of these are mistaken by the endocrine system as estradiol, causing hormone disruption in the affected animal.[22] These toxin-containing plastic pieces are also eaten by jellyfish, which are then eaten by larger fish. Many of these fish are then consumed by humans, resulting in their ingestion of toxic chemicals. [25] Marine plastics also facilitate the spread of invasive species that attach to floating plastic in one region and drift long distances to colonize other ecosystems.[14]
References:
[14] ^ a b Ferris, David (May/June 2009), "Message in a Bottle", Sierra (San Francisco: Sierra Club), retrieved August 13, 2009
[21] ^ Moore, Charles (November 2003), Across the Pacific Ocean, plastics, plastics, everywhere, Natural History Magazine
[22] ^ a b Moore, Charles (2002-10-02), Great Pacific Garbage Patch, Santa Barbara News-Press
[23] ^ Rios, L.M.; Moore, C. and Jones, P.R. (2007), "Persistent organic pollutants carried by Synthetic polymers in the ocean environment", Marine Pollution Bulletin 54: 1230–1237, doi:10.1016/j.marpolbul.2007.03.022
[24] ^ Tanabe, S.; Watanabe, M., Minh, T.B., Kunisue, T., Nakanishi, S., Ono, H. and Tanaka, H. (2004), "PCDDs, PCDFs, and coplanar PCBs in albatross from the North Pacific and Southern Oceans: Levels, patterns, and toxicological implications", Environmental Science & Technology 38: 403–413, doi:10.1021/es034966x
[25] ^ Rogers, Paul. "'Pacific Garbage Patch' expedition finds plastic, plastic everywhere." The Contra Costa Times [Walnut Creek, CA] 1 Sept. 2009: n. pag. Web. 4 Oct. 2009. <Search Results - ContraCostaTimes.com ci_13258216?nclick_check=1>.
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  #17  
Old 10-25-2009
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And like Sundancer mentioned, fixing the problem where the source is at the top of the list and not the bottom.

Example;

Most coastal water pollution ( around these parts ) comes from inland runoff sources and poorly maintained infrastructure, not the runoff from my deck or improperly maintained BMP's at the local boatyard, but yet they insist on imposing legislation to regulate those areas and do nothing up stream

Example;

Environmentalist have closed down most of the desert to OHV use, they sighted that the desert tortoise were/are being killed by reckless OHV user, they managed to close 95% of open desert, destroying a livelyhood and income for many that depend on this industry and yet the tortoise continues to die, why ?? because they went on a agenda and not facts, the tortise continued to die because of a upper respiratory tract disease and the raven, but yet they continue to use reckless offroad use to close off public land, why ?? because emotion is a easy tool to manipulate and inflame
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  #18  
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eherlihy you couldn't have listed a less credible source of references
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  #19  
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Coreyboy, you're right, there are plenty of good, strong reasons to want to clean up the oceans (and I for one would certainly support the aim). So why would anyone want to use an exaggerated reason?
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It was not my intention to review the research on this subject rather to draw attention to some dramatic photos illustrating the issue.

However since other research is said to exist on Midway it would be interesting to see the citations particularly justifying the claim made that most deaths are due to line strikes and being run over (on two atolls that are a nature reserve with a population of 60, and a total of two square miles?)

Perhaps the main recent research is the paper on albatrosses on Midway which is about to be published on levels of DDT, PCB and dioxin contamination, reported in Old Nemesis, DDT, Reaches Remote Midway Albatrosses - The New York Times

“One likely source of the dioxin-like compounds, Dr. Ludwig said, is the large amount of partly burned plastic ingested by albatrosses. The birds are notorious for swallowing floating plastic debris, and virtually all of the plastic items found in Midway albatrosses originated in trash dumped on the coast of Japan and other Pacific Rim countries, he said.”

He estimated losses due to these contaminants at 3%. As there are reportedly 7000 black footed pairs and 200,000 pairs of Laysan albatrosses, if each pair has one egg that gives around 6000 lost from contamination. As the research terminated early for lack of funds it may well be that they did not establish a figure for loss from plastic digestion or look at causes of death. I couldn’t say without reading the yet unpublished paper.

Looking further I find that the nest count carried out this year gives 23955 pairs of black footed and 398182. of Laysan which is double the numbers reported in the earlier article, suggesting that losses due to contamination are around 12,000 pa. See Naturefinder: Plastic Debris and Albatross on Midway Atoll

Research in 93 94 95 found enteritis the most common pathology in chicks possibly related to dehydration with the rate increasing each year. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9533074?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

Earlier research on deaths showed dehydration as the major cause of death. “There was no evidence that ingested plastic caused mechanical lesions or mortality in 1987, but most of the chicks had considerably less plastic in them than chicks from earlier years.” Causes of mortality of albatross chicks at Midway ...[J Wildl Dis. 1990] - PubMed Result. Three points suggest themselves. Has there been a change in the amount of plastic since 1987? Where toxicants such as PCBs tested for? What effects does having a digestive system full of chunks of plastic have on feeding and drinking when young chicks can neither regurgitate the stuff nor likely excrete it?

This paper suggests that both digestion of the plastic gives poisoning and the satiation effects causing dehydration and poorer condition are the processes involved. http://www.usask.ca/toxicology/jgies...ons/BC-060.pdf
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