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post #21 of 99 Old 10-25-2009
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Let's not get too emotional here! We are all sailors and likely have concern for the world we live in. I didn't read the article (sorry) but I can imagine that some articles on the Internet can have exaggerated claims which can disrupt the dissemination of good scientific information.
I assume the point is that there is good science that supports that humans are causing changes to the environment and YES we might have to change our behavior. Is that SO bad? I think the best thing we can do in North America is capitalize on an emerging market...Taking care of the earth for our future generations... Obviously if we don't care or want to change then there will be serious problems with 6-8 billion people consuming with out any regard for the condition of the oceans and the air.

I am not on ANY band wagon but am willing to think and change. Are you?

"The sail, the play of its pulse so like our own lives: so thin and yet so full of life, so noiseless when it labours hardest, so noisy and impatient when least effective". -- Henry David Thoreau
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post #22 of 99 Old 10-25-2009
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Originally Posted by krozet View Post
poopdeckpappy - No sense arguing, Ecology is the newest religion. It has it's zealots, it's belief system, it's branches and most scary it's currently trendy...
I would smile at that response if it weren't so scary.
-Yep, them poor tobacco companies, always getting bashed as if cigarettes causes cancer.
-Boy oh boy, those folks over at Love Canal sure are faking it.
-My gosh, what's the problem? The dioxins are in the power transformers, not in the ground.
-So what's wrong with a little DDT? It sure makes them apples look great!
-We can responsibly drill for oil off the coast of Santa Barbara. After all, who cares more for the environment than the oil companies?

Those crazy tree-hugging environmentalists. Always making up stories.

As the worlds fisheries become more depleted, and the areas of dead ocean get a bit larger, maybe it's time we start paying attention to the ecology of the planet.

But maybe I only feel this way because of my selfishness.... I've got kids.

Eric
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post #23 of 99 Old 10-25-2009
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Originally Posted by ericread View Post
I would smile at that response if it weren't so scary.
-Yep, them poor tobacco companies, always getting bashed as if cigarettes causes cancer.
-Boy oh boy, those folks over at Love Canal sure are faking it.
-My gosh, what's the problem? The dioxins are in the power transformers, not in the ground.
-So what's wrong with a little DDT? It sure makes them apples look great!
-We can responsibly drill for oil off the coast of Santa Barbara. After all, who cares more for the environment than the oil companies?

Those crazy tree-hugging environmentalists. Always making up stories.

As the worlds fisheries become more depleted, and the areas of dead ocean get a bit larger, maybe it's time we start paying attention to the ecology of the planet.

But maybe I only feel this way because of my selfishness.... I've got kids.

Eric
Um.... You're mixing up science and religion. No one disputes Cancer / DDT / Dioxins.

Science is seeking a balance between life and nature, understanding that there are things that work and that there are things that need to change. Using science is the reason that we know cigarettes cause cancer, that DDT was more dangerous than first thought...

Religion makes people run out and buy compact florescent light bulbs thinking they are better for the environment despite the fact they contain Mercury.
Religion makes people think that buying a Pirus is an environmental choice, not a marketing ploy. People don't wonder where all the toxic chemicals from the batteries go...
Religion makes people want to do something, anything... Fighting for the loss of forests is a great cause............ IN BRAZIL! In North American, forests have been GROWING over the last century due to responsible forest management. Yes the rain forests are shrinking at an alarming rate but chaining one's self to a logging truck in Washington state will do nothing for that.

I do not question the need to challenge tobacco companies, oil companies or any other person threatening the planet we all live on or other people. I absolutely agree that there needs to be a shift in thinking and action to clean up the issues we have caused.

What I do not agree with is blindly following what one person say is right without question, that is not only dangerous but stupid. Check you're facts, followup and always keep an open mind. If something doesn't make sense then question it.

What absolutely rubs me the wrong way is an argument that has to be embellished, bent or spun to get an emotional reaction from the masses. Far too often if someone doesn't have the proof and the facts to support their argument then they appeal to the emotional side of humanity.

Robert

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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."

Mark Twain
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post #24 of 99 Old 10-25-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatWhite View Post
I am not on ANY band wagon but am willing to think and change. Are you?
The key is to think and research then respond wisely, not to read and react emotionally thus irresponsibly

1955 Blanchard 51 Custom ( I got a woody )

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post #25 of 99 Old 10-25-2009
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The key is to think and research then respond wisely, not to read and react emotionally thus irresponsibly
Exactly!

1971 Contest 33 Hull Number 24

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."

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post #26 of 99 Old 10-25-2009
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Great Pacific Garbage Patch

I have read elsewhere that there is NO WAY that man would ever be able to clean up the mess, as it covers too large an area, and that there is too much crap to pick up.
lets see i think this "patch" is one big greenie wet dream to show how bad we are.

its so big we could never clean it up, but there is not a single pic any where, be it from a boat, plane, or satellite. you would think some one would go take pics just so they could show em.

as for the pics of the birds, i really think all those bottle caps would blow away. i mean half the bird rotted and blew away, why did the caps stay.
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post #27 of 99 Old 10-25-2009
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Robert; You and I generall agree on the process. But I would rather err on the side of ecology. As was said earlier in this thread, (although I do not have scientific evidence) I would have to believe the Albatross lobby just doesn't have the influence of the companies that manufacture the plastics.

PoopDeckPappy provided this example:

Most coastal water pollution ( around these parts ) comes from inland runoff sources and poorly maintained infrastructure, not the runoff from my deck or improperly maintained BMP's at the local boatyard, but yet they insist on imposing legislation to regulate those areas and do nothing up stream.

So why is it we would rather complain that we must be responsible for our actions than work to make the responsible parties up stream account for their actions? What happened to doing the "right" thing? Have we become so cynical that when we see others raping nature, we decide we should join in on the fun?

When did "doing the tight thing" become a sucker's bet?

Eric
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post #28 of 99 Old 10-25-2009
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lets see i think this "patch" is one big greenie wet dream to show how bad we are.

its so big we could never clean it up, but there is not a single pic any where, be it from a boat, plane, or satellite. you would think some one would go tak. e pics just so they could show em.

as for the pics of the birds, i really think all those bottle caps would blow away. i mean half the bird rotted and blew away, why did the caps stay.
You got to be kidding right? If you are trying to be sarcastic you can put a /sarcasm after
a joke or sarcastic remark...if you are not joking then I pity your ignorance (on second thought maybe ignorance is bliss for you...not the rest of us though.)

Marine Debris Program - Funding Opportunities

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that human's incredible lust for plastic is having an effect on the ocean. Imagine 6 billion people and all their plastic, about 10 % of which ends up in the ocean. Have you ever been to a third world country? If so you know the garbage is littered every where and then eventually gets flushed into the ocean. Americans aren't much better and the volume of consumption is staggering. Did you drink from a plastic water bottle recently?

"The sail, the play of its pulse so like our own lives: so thin and yet so full of life, so noiseless when it labours hardest, so noisy and impatient when least effective". -- Henry David Thoreau

Last edited by GreatWhite; 10-25-2009 at 11:35 PM.
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Chris Gee, read up on Midway atolls and the current eco tourism business going on, on this so called natural reserve.

A San Fransico based company will gladly fly you to this atoll for a 7 days stay @ 5 grand a head, it's only a 4 hr flight from Hawaii by turbo-prop Gulfstream, but you have to be a wealthy enviro activist to qualify.

And that population of 60 ?? It's more like a LLC that employs 60 and maybe more

Now, take all that info, add to it the references eherlihy had posted earlier ( all based in the SF area ) and you begin to doubt the ligitimacy of their agenda, is it to fight a good cause or is it to support a high dollar enviro retreat. much like the Nature Conservency did with Palmyra Atoll

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post #30 of 99 Old 10-26-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatWhite View Post
You got to be kidding right? If you are trying to be sarcastic you can put a /sarcasm after
a joke or sarcastic remark...if you are not joking then I pity your ignorance (on second thought maybe ignorance is bliss for you...not the rest of us though.)
nope no sarcasm at all. sure we use a lot of plastic, probably too much. do we throw it away stupidly, probably.

we also do stupid things with our normal trash, we stick it in land fills. but oh no we cant have it stink so we seal it up, so now it cant rot.

sure there is plastic in the ocean, sure some floats, some sinks. do we really think that the ocean grinds it up, then keeps it all suspended in a big mass.

i wish i could find it, i read an article about the grye. the article was about some one who put in gps monitored floats to track the currents at the grye. about half stayed there the other half went other places. given that all along the person who did this with the purpose of showing that the gyre exists but he proved to himself other wise. the author said if his trend is normal, then the trash would dissipate not build.

and just because noaa says it exists, does not mean it does, just look at what they say about rouge waves. they thought every few years, but its much more often than they thought ten years ago

the proof is in the pudding, show me picks, show me a net that was dragged filled with debris show me something more than speculation and papers from people with agendas
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