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  #31  
Old 10-26-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyt View Post
nope no sarcasm at all. sure we use a lot of plastic, probably too much. do we throw it away stupidly, probably.

we also do stupid things with our normal trash, we stick it in land fills. but oh no we cant have it stink so we seal it up, so now it cant rot.

sure there is plastic in the ocean, sure some floats, some sinks. do we really think that the ocean grinds it up, then keeps it all suspended in a big mass.

i wish i could find it, i read an article about the grye. the article was about some one who put in gps monitored floats to track the currents at the grye. about half stayed there the other half went other places. given that all along the person who did this with the purpose of showing that the gyre exists but he proved to himself other wise. the author said if his trend is normal, then the trash would dissipate not build.

and just because noaa says it exists, does not mean it does, just look at what they say about rouge waves. they thought every few years, but its much more often than they thought ten years ago

the proof is in the pudding, show me picks, show me a net that was dragged filled with debris show me something more than speculation and papers from people with agendas
If we could drag a net through it to see it then we could clean it up.
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  #32  
Old 10-26-2009
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Scotty, maybe you are right...but it just makes sense to me that with the shear volume of plastic it would end up in huge quantities in the ocean. I don't understand what the agenda of noaa might be..they just said there was nothing we could do except reduce our use of plastic.
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  #33  
Old 10-26-2009
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i dont believe that noaa it self has an agenda, but i do believe that some people go to work there because it makes them feel good. the ones i am talking about are the ones with agendas. then they get to levels that get to decide which other programs or groups get funding and it becomes a political.

face it noaa attracts "green" minded people so thats how it will be steered
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  #34  
Old 10-26-2009
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I find it a shame that being 'green' has such a negative connotation for you. I do understand that extremes (on any side of an argument or discussion) create a reaction. I do see a lot of bad science or overstated arguments that might have got your back up

...I just hope that people can stay open minded...There shouldn't be a problem trying take care of the oceans...even if it is a green thing
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  #35  
Old 10-26-2009
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If we could put man on the moon, then we can surely send out purseiners to net a new catch for recycling...Plastic.

People can make all the laws and rules they want about dealing with trash in the U.S., and in time it probably will become law...but not in the rest of the world. There are vast areas of the world that couldn't give a hoot about plastic in the ocean, because they're just trying to find their next meal, or job, or place to lay their heads at night. Since China has been the worlds biggest manufacturer of almost everything these last eight or more years, and the leading polluter of the world, I think the pressure should be put on them...but the environmentalist no better than to get them to change. The reason they won't try and hold China's feet to the fire is, China will tell them to go pound sand...but not the U.S. Not only does the U.S. do more to improve the environment than just about any responsible government on this planet, it also tries to teach, educate, and help more countries with their environmental problems than any other country in the world.

If you're an environmentalist you need to take the fight to places like China, India, Pakistan, Africa, Indonesia, Mexico, and lets not forget Japan where they eat everything that moves...they still fish for whales when no one is looking.
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  #36  
Old 10-26-2009
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chris_gee thanks for the articles. I don't claim any expertise in this area so can't give references to articles about fishing and albatross deaths but can only point you back to the RSPB and similar organisations who claim it is so. As a respected wildlife conservation organisation, I can only assume that they have researched the literature and/or commissioned their own studies.
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  #37  
Old 10-26-2009
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Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.
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  #38  
Old 10-26-2009
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I don't have an agenda. I am not a rabid greenie. I don't claim expertise in environmental issues. However I do think we have a responsibility to future generations even at any particular time knowledge is incomplete.
OK run off causes problems so does cows farting as far as methane and global warming goes. Big deal. Try to fix em both.
Ok poopdeckpappy tourists go to Midway and boost the population is that a major point? How many? I invited you to review the research or at least cite it so a discussion could have some evidential base. Not saying it will be conclusive as little science is, but pooh pooh ain't either.
I didn't in fact know but there is quite extensive research into the issues. At least, it suggests a big ? or wtf.
As sailors it seems reasonable to me to be mindful of environmental issues. I make no apology for drawing this to the attention of others just as it has been drawn to my attention.
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Old 10-26-2009
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great white, i have no problem being green, its when the green freaks show up i have a problem. i know a sailor who sold off his out board because it uses gas, he installed oars on a 27 foot bristol . he refuses to use bottom paint and when what is there wears off he wont use more, he says he will dive daily to scrub if he needs to. he does not want to fix his soft decks because he will need epoxy which comes from oil. when his sails die he wants either cotton or hemp sails. he is a green freak, but at least he lives by what he say. and i like him he is a nice guy

now the lady who tried to tell me off because i used plastic bags at the store, but then got in to a chevy truck are the ones that need swimming lessions with lead boots.

i was once told that people who dont car pool should be forced to pay 10 per gallon of gas, and the extra money used to pay for public transportation.

i heard a lady at a whole food store say that the world needs to adopt chinas one child law until the world has 50 % less population for green house gas reasons. same lady then said that the electricity should be shut off at 9 pm so no one uses lights. another lead boot contestant
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  #40  
Old 10-26-2009
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Guys, (and trolls),

I have no agenda here. I didn't say if plastic is good, or bad, and I'm not askin' you to do or change anything. What I am saying, however, is that the Pacific Gyre exists! (I think that I know how Galileo and Columbus felt.) Wikipedia, and several other articles, cite the impact on birds, animals, and eventually, humans.

If you follow the link that I posted earlier, you will learn why it does not show up on sattelite or areal photos. I'll save that tidbit for you to read about.

Because there seems to be some bias against them "SF Area" environmentalists, here are a couple of other references:
New Hampshire Union Leader - this is about the most right leaning newspaper that I can think of.

The Marietta, Ohio, Times

The Irish Times - yes, from Ireland; the country.

Scientific American

Thank you to krozet for pointing out the contradiction of encouraging people to buy a Prius, or CFL for "ecological" reasons. Those who do are trading one poison for another...
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