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Plastic pollution

11K views 98 replies 27 participants last post by  JiffyLube 
#1 ·
There is a series of photos of the tens of thousands of albatross chicks reportedly dying each year at Midway Island after being feed plastic picked up as food by their parents. Bottle tops are common. Makes you wonder what else is being killed. Ho hum, yeah we know about pollution, but take a look at the dramatic pictures and see for yourself. current work
 
#2 ·
#26 ·
Great Pacific Garbage Patch

I have read elsewhere that there is NO WAY that man would ever be able to clean up the mess, as it covers too large an area, and that there is too much crap to pick up.
lets see i think this "patch" is one big greenie wet dream to show how bad we are.

its so big we could never clean it up, but there is not a single pic any where, be it from a boat, plane, or satellite. you would think some one would go take pics just so they could show em.

as for the pics of the birds, i really think all those bottle caps would blow away. i mean half the bird rotted and blew away, why did the caps stay.
 
#3 ·
Plastic containers should be outlawed or at least a substanial deposit to ensure recycling. As a kid I made money collecting glass bottles for reuse. If all plastic containers had a 20 cent deposit almost every one would be recycled. All of those plastic water bottles floating around would instantly be converted from trash to treasure.
 
#4 ·
I would research this a little more, these kinds of claims have been going on since the mid 80's. The Wildlife Diseases Research Center researched this back in the late 80's and disputed the claims saying that dehydration from lead based items was the leading cause and that human activity (vehicular trauma) at Midway Atoll represented additive mortality for pre-fledgling albatrosses.

I'm discussed by the crap in our waters as much as anyone but, with the history of embelishing, exploting and outright fabrications to further a agenda, one has to wonder about the credibility of the story.

Think in terms of the Linx, spotted owl and desert tortise, all of which have been proven to be based on a agenda ( with a side order of fabrication ) and not facts
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#7 · (Edited)
And here we go :( I guess we should just believe it because it's on the internet and because of the disclaimer

" not a single piece of plastic in any of these photographs was moved, placed, manipulated, arranged, or altered in any way. "

Did you know that with all the studies done on all the Albatross species on Midway atoll not one mentions plastic ingestion as a leading cause of death, they do mention Building lights, Airplane strikes, electric lines and even drowning in heavy rain and flooded nest, but not plastic

But that's not the point, the point is " research it " yourself and quit believing everything you read on the internet
 
#10 ·
...remembering of course that Chris Jordan claims himself to be an artist not a scientist. So allowing that he has not manipulated the photos as he claims, do we know he is interpreting the evidence correctly? For instance, could it be that the plastic is being used as nesting material rather than food?
 
#13 ·
poopdeckpappy - No sense arguing, Ecology is the newest religion. It has it's zealots, it's belief system, it's branches and most scary it's currently trendy...
 
#22 ·
I would smile at that response if it weren't so scary.
-Yep, them poor tobacco companies, always getting bashed as if cigarettes causes cancer.
-Boy oh boy, those folks over at Love Canal sure are faking it.
-My gosh, what's the problem? The dioxins are in the power transformers, not in the ground.
-So what's wrong with a little DDT? It sure makes them apples look great!
-We can responsibly drill for oil off the coast of Santa Barbara. After all, who cares more for the environment than the oil companies?

Those crazy tree-hugging environmentalists. Always making up stories.

As the worlds fisheries become more depleted, and the areas of dead ocean get a bit larger, maybe it's time we start paying attention to the ecology of the planet.

But maybe I only feel this way because of my selfishness.... I've got kids.

Eric
 
#14 ·
Ok, so let's talk about the agenda for a second then...to clean up our waters? Even if these things are being fabricated/exploited/whatever, it is to make our waters cleaner and to better the planet for future generations...so they can enjoy what we have. The fact is that there ARE thousands of animals ingesting these plastics and whatnot, the albatross is just one of them. So, while they may be exaggerating the facts (which isn't confirmed), this is one instance that I wouldn't really take a strong stance against it...IMPO.
 
#15 ·
You're missing the point that as soon as it becomes OK to exaggerate the issues of one topic then it becomes OK to do it for all issues. This issue can stand on the facts that waste plastic management is probably one of the most horrendous disasters of the modern age. Use the facts to educate the public, not exaggerate them to curry sympathy.

You know what happens when it becomes OK to exaggerate? It becomes OK to bend the truth and even lie.

On August 18, 2000, journalist Jane Akre won $425,000 in a court ruling where she charged she was pressured by Fox News management and lawyers to air what she knew and documented to be false information.

The real information: she found out cows in Florida were being injected with RBGH, a drug designed to make cows produce milk - and, according to FDA-redacted studies, unintentionally designed to make human beings produce cancer.

Fox lawyers, under pressure by the Monsanto Corporation (who produced RBGH), rewrote her report over 80 times to make it compatible with the company's requests. She and her husband, journalist Steve Wilson, refused to air the edited segment.

In February 2003, Fox appealed the decision and an appellate court and had it overturned. Fox lawyers argued it was their first amendment right to report false information. In a six-page written decision, the Court of Appeals decided the FCC's position against news distortion is only a "policy," not a "law, rule, or regulation."
 
#16 ·
At the risk of feeding trolls, I'll help you with the Wikipedia article and the referenced sources;
Impact on wildlife

The remnants of a Laysan Albatross chick which was fed plastic by its parents resulting in death (same pic as those pointed to in the original post)
Some of these long-lasting plastics end up in the stomachs of marine birds and animals,[21] including sea turtles, and the Black-footed Albatross.[22] Besides the particles' danger to wildlife, the floating debris can absorb organic pollutants from seawater, including PCBs, DDT, and PAHs.[23] Aside from toxic effects,[24] when ingested, some of these are mistaken by the endocrine system as estradiol, causing hormone disruption in the affected animal.[22] These toxin-containing plastic pieces are also eaten by jellyfish, which are then eaten by larger fish. Many of these fish are then consumed by humans, resulting in their ingestion of toxic chemicals. [25] Marine plastics also facilitate the spread of invasive species that attach to floating plastic in one region and drift long distances to colonize other ecosystems.[14]
References:
[14] ^ a b Ferris, David (May/June 2009), "Message in a Bottle", Sierra (San Francisco: Sierra Club), retrieved August 13, 2009
[21] ^ Moore, Charles (November 2003), Across the Pacific Ocean, plastics, plastics, everywhere, Natural History Magazine
[22] ^ a b Moore, Charles (2002-10-02), Great Pacific Garbage Patch, Santa Barbara News-Press
[23] ^ Rios, L.M.; Moore, C. and Jones, P.R. (2007), "Persistent organic pollutants carried by Synthetic polymers in the ocean environment", Marine Pollution Bulletin 54: 1230-1237, doi:10.1016/j.marpolbul.2007.03.022
[24] ^ Tanabe, S.; Watanabe, M., Minh, T.B., Kunisue, T., Nakanishi, S., Ono, H. and Tanaka, H. (2004), "PCDDs, PCDFs, and coplanar PCBs in albatross from the North Pacific and Southern Oceans: Levels, patterns, and toxicological implications", Environmental Science & Technology 38: 403-413, doi:10.1021/es034966x
[25] ^ Rogers, Paul. "'Pacific Garbage Patch' expedition finds plastic, plastic everywhere." The Contra Costa Times [Walnut Creek, CA] 1 Sept. 2009: n. pag. Web. 4 Oct. 2009. <Search Results - ContraCostaTimes.com ci_13258216?nclick_check=1>.
 
#17 ·
And like Sundancer mentioned, fixing the problem where the source is at the top of the list and not the bottom.

Example;

Most coastal water pollution ( around these parts ) comes from inland runoff sources and poorly maintained infrastructure, not the runoff from my deck or improperly maintained BMP's at the local boatyard, but yet they insist on imposing legislation to regulate those areas and do nothing up stream

Example;

Environmentalist have closed down most of the desert to OHV use, they sighted that the desert tortoise were/are being killed by reckless OHV user, they managed to close 95% of open desert, destroying a livelyhood and income for many that depend on this industry and yet the tortoise continues to die, why ?? because they went on a agenda and not facts, the tortise continued to die because of a upper respiratory tract disease and the raven, but yet they continue to use reckless offroad use to close off public land, why ?? because emotion is a easy tool to manipulate and inflame
 
#20 ·
It was not my intention to review the research on this subject rather to draw attention to some dramatic photos illustrating the issue.

However since other research is said to exist on Midway it would be interesting to see the citations particularly justifying the claim made that most deaths are due to line strikes and being run over (on two atolls that are a nature reserve with a population of 60, and a total of two square miles?)

Perhaps the main recent research is the paper on albatrosses on Midway which is about to be published on levels of DDT, PCB and dioxin contamination, reported in Old Nemesis, DDT, Reaches Remote Midway Albatrosses - The New York Times

"One likely source of the dioxin-like compounds, Dr. Ludwig said, is the large amount of partly burned plastic ingested by albatrosses. The birds are notorious for swallowing floating plastic debris, and virtually all of the plastic items found in Midway albatrosses originated in trash dumped on the coast of Japan and other Pacific Rim countries, he said."

He estimated losses due to these contaminants at 3%. As there are reportedly 7000 black footed pairs and 200,000 pairs of Laysan albatrosses, if each pair has one egg that gives around 6000 lost from contamination. As the research terminated early for lack of funds it may well be that they did not establish a figure for loss from plastic digestion or look at causes of death. I couldn't say without reading the yet unpublished paper.

Looking further I find that the nest count carried out this year gives 23955 pairs of black footed and 398182. of Laysan which is double the numbers reported in the earlier article, suggesting that losses due to contamination are around 12,000 pa. See Naturefinder: Plastic Debris and Albatross on Midway Atoll

Research in 93 94 95 found enteritis the most common pathology in chicks possibly related to dehydration with the rate increasing each year. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9533074?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

Earlier research on deaths showed dehydration as the major cause of death. "There was no evidence that ingested plastic caused mechanical lesions or mortality in 1987, but most of the chicks had considerably less plastic in them than chicks from earlier years." Causes of mortality of albatross chicks at Midway ...[J Wildl Dis. 1990] - PubMed Result. Three points suggest themselves. Has there been a change in the amount of plastic since 1987? Where toxicants such as PCBs tested for? What effects does having a digestive system full of chunks of plastic have on feeding and drinking when young chicks can neither regurgitate the stuff nor likely excrete it?

This paper suggests that both digestion of the plastic gives poisoning and the satiation effects causing dehydration and poorer condition are the processes involved. http://www.usask.ca/toxicology/jgiesy/pdf/publications/BC-060.pdf
 
#21 ·
Let's not get too emotional here! We are all sailors and likely have concern for the world we live in. I didn't read the article (sorry) but I can imagine that some articles on the Internet can have exaggerated claims which can disrupt the dissemination of good scientific information.
I assume the point is that there is good science that supports that humans are causing changes to the environment and YES we might have to change our behavior. Is that SO bad? I think the best thing we can do in North America is capitalize on an emerging market...Taking care of the earth for our future generations... Obviously if we don't care or want to change then there will be serious problems with 6-8 billion people consuming with out any regard for the condition of the oceans and the air.

I am not on ANY band wagon but am willing to think and change. Are you?
 
#27 ·
Robert; You and I generall agree on the process. But I would rather err on the side of ecology. As was said earlier in this thread, (although I do not have scientific evidence) I would have to believe the Albatross lobby just doesn't have the influence of the companies that manufacture the plastics.

PoopDeckPappy provided this example:

Most coastal water pollution ( around these parts ) comes from inland runoff sources and poorly maintained infrastructure, not the runoff from my deck or improperly maintained BMP's at the local boatyard, but yet they insist on imposing legislation to regulate those areas and do nothing up stream.

So why is it we would rather complain that we must be responsible for our actions than work to make the responsible parties up stream account for their actions? What happened to doing the "right" thing? Have we become so cynical that when we see others raping nature, we decide we should join in on the fun?

When did "doing the tight thing" become a sucker's bet?

Eric
 
#29 ·
Chris Gee, read up on Midway atolls and the current eco tourism business going on, on this so called natural reserve.

A San Fransico based company will gladly fly you to this atoll for a 7 days stay @ 5 grand a head, it's only a 4 hr flight from Hawaii by turbo-prop Gulfstream, but you have to be a wealthy enviro activist to qualify.

And that population of 60 ?? It's more like a LLC that employs 60 and maybe more

Now, take all that info, add to it the references eherlihy had posted earlier ( all based in the SF area ) and you begin to doubt the ligitimacy of their agenda, is it to fight a good cause or is it to support a high dollar enviro retreat. much like the Nature Conservency did with Palmyra Atoll
 
#32 ·
Scotty, maybe you are right...but it just makes sense to me that with the shear volume of plastic it would end up in huge quantities in the ocean. I don't understand what the agenda of noaa might be..they just said there was nothing we could do except reduce our use of plastic.
 
#33 ·
i dont believe that noaa it self has an agenda, but i do believe that some people go to work there because it makes them feel good. the ones i am talking about are the ones with agendas. then they get to levels that get to decide which other programs or groups get funding and it becomes a political.

face it noaa attracts "green" minded people so thats how it will be steered
 
#34 ·
I find it a shame that being 'green' has such a negative connotation for you. I do understand that extremes (on any side of an argument or discussion) create a reaction. I do see a lot of bad science or overstated arguments that might have got your back up

...I just hope that people can stay open minded...There shouldn't be a problem trying take care of the oceans...even if it is a green thing
 
#35 ·
If we could put man on the moon, then we can surely send out purseiners to net a new catch for recycling...Plastic.

People can make all the laws and rules they want about dealing with trash in the U.S., and in time it probably will become law...but not in the rest of the world. There are vast areas of the world that couldn't give a hoot about plastic in the ocean, because they're just trying to find their next meal, or job, or place to lay their heads at night. Since China has been the worlds biggest manufacturer of almost everything these last eight or more years, and the leading polluter of the world, I think the pressure should be put on them...but the environmentalist no better than to get them to change. The reason they won't try and hold China's feet to the fire is, China will tell them to go pound sand...but not the U.S. Not only does the U.S. do more to improve the environment than just about any responsible government on this planet, it also tries to teach, educate, and help more countries with their environmental problems than any other country in the world.

If you're an environmentalist you need to take the fight to places like China, India, Pakistan, Africa, Indonesia, Mexico, and lets not forget Japan where they eat everything that moves...they still fish for whales when no one is looking.
 
#36 ·
chris_gee thanks for the articles. I don't claim any expertise in this area so can't give references to articles about fishing and albatross deaths but can only point you back to the RSPB and similar organisations who claim it is so. As a respected wildlife conservation organisation, I can only assume that they have researched the literature and/or commissioned their own studies.
 
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