Running Backstays - pluses/minuses

[AndrewMac]

I was wondering if anyone could give me some input on the pluses and minuses of running backstays. I'm in the process of buying an older wooden boat whose original rig included running backstays. These were subsequently converted to a a permanent fixed backstay and the guy who runs our yard is recommending going back to the original system. I've only sailed with a fixed backstay and am not sure of the advantages of the running backstay.

Any help would be much appreciated - thanks.

[cormeum]

if it's only runners (no fixed stay), you can get more sail area as there's no backstay to clear. the downside being that you have to set up the weather stay smartly or you could lose the stick in a good breeze. A lot of fractional rigged boats had no fixed backstay. Gaffers of course don't either.

from a "less to worry about" standpoint, I'd favor the fixed stay.

We have a masthead rig with fixed stays and an additional set of runners that you only "need" when running a stays'l.

[AndrewMac]

Thanks. Someone had told me that it was designed to get more sail area up, but then I also thought I had read that the vast majority of lift is generated by the leading 3 ft of the main, so the additional sail you get back by the leach wouldn't do much. If this is correct, then I'm not sure of the benefit. Plus, the idea of "losing the stick in a good breeze" sounds like the kind of excitment I could do without.

[cormeum]

Originally Posted by AndrewMac

Thanks. Someone had told me that it was designed to get more sail area up, but then I also thought I had read that the vast majority of lift is generated by the leading 3 ft of the main, so the additional sail you get back by the leach wouldn't do much. If this is correct, then I'm not sure of the benefit. Plus, the idea of "losing the stick in a good breeze" sounds like the kind of excitment I could do without.

Reaching and running is where having a lot of area is a big plus. Still not worth the hassle IMO.

[nolatom]

Running backstays--an accidental jibe means no backstay, which could mean no mast.

Agree with Cormeum above. But check the original stay design, maybe ask a designer or naval arch what they think about the update. Some designs had double runners so the mid-mast had enough support as well as the peak.

[AndrewMac]

Great thanks. The accidental jibe issue had occured to me

The advantage on reaching and running points makes sense, but agree that it sounds like a fair amount of hassle/risk.

[JohnRPollard]

Andrew,

Some boats use runners only occasionally, in heavy going, to help stabilize the mast and resist pumping. This is especially true on boats that fly an inner forestaysail (such as cutters). Our rig, for instance, is designed to use runners when a heavy air 'staysail is in use. But we don't even have the runners rigged because we don't need them for the kind of sailing we do.

However, on some boats, the running backstays are not optional and must be used at all times, since they are the primary aft support for the mast. This is the case on many fractionally rigged designs -- including many that were also rigged with a "tuning" backstay.

In general, I would not recommend running backstays for short-handed sailing if the runners are the primary backstay for the mast. It is an extra bit of choreographing that most of us could do without when tacking and jibing. On crewed boats, it's less of an issue.

What I'd want to know in your case, was were the runners an essential part of the rig support, and a previous owner took a risky shortcut by eliminating them? If so, did they beef up the backstay and/or the mast to compensate for a different standing rigging geometry? Etc?

P.S. There really aren't any advantages to running backstays, at least for most of us. On gaffers, they were a necessity, but todays modern rigs, even most of the fractionally rigged boats, have done away with them (except as noted above for heavy air).

[AndrewMac]

John - great feedback, thanks. I do a fair amount of shorthanded sailing (ie with one or two additional crew). i rarely singlehand, but usually have a great time when I do. The boat is a 28' fractional rigged daysailer and the original wooden spars have been replaced with aluminum, the boom shortened and the running backstays eliminated. One of the projects I'm taking on is to replace the aluminum spars with wood and so the debate about whether I want to revert to the original design with the longer boom and the running backstays. Whether I retain the fixed or revert to the running backstays, I will have an opportunity (or requirement) to rerig the stays.

[JohnRPollard]

Originally Posted by AndrewMac

John - great feedback, thanks. I do a fair amount of shorthanded sailing (ie with one or two additional crew). i rarely singlehand, but usually have a great time when I do. The boat is a 28' fractional rigged daysailer and the original wooden spars have been replaced with aluminum, the boom shortened and the running backstays eliminated. One of the projects I'm taking on is to replace the aluminum spars with wood and so the debate about whether I want to revert to the original design with the longer boom and the running backstays. Whether I retain the fixed or revert to the running backstays, I will have an opportunity (or requirement) to rerig the stays.

In that case, I would consult with someone very knowledgeable about rig design if you are going to alter the original spec. You can't go into this thinking "Oh, maybe I'll just drop those runners from the rig plan because they aren't convenient". That sort of decision would entail a lot of modifications to the rig to make it safe. That's where a consult with an expert would really help.

If it were me, and I was going to deviate from the original sail rig, I'd hire someone to design a new one and make sure not only that it was structurally sound but that the sailplan was properly balanced too.

One final thought: This is not an especially large boat. In my opinion, the smaller the boat, the less of a hassle those runners will be. You probably won't even need to run them to a winch -- a block system with a jam cleat will probably do it. That takes some of the work out of it.

[AndrewMac]

Point taken - thanks again.