A Conundrum, without an Answer

[klem]

The series hybrid setups that the big ships use do have their advantages but I don't see them being important on a small boat. One of the big reasons those boats use that powertrain is space. An electric motor is a lot smaller and it means that they can put the engine somewhere remote without a drive shaft taking up lots of room down below. Also, electric motors give much better control since they can operate through a much wider range of rpm. The really big engines are basically fixed rpm engines so they often need controllable pitch propellers so that they can vary their thrust. The final reason that I know of is that the big ships often have several different generators and they can only run the number that they need for any given amount of power. I am sure there are other good points for them as well. To me, none of these points make particular sense for small cruising sailboats.

The idea of one engine on a cat and then using hydraulic or electric drives is interesting. It would add complexity but remove an engine. Your efficiency might drop a little. I am guessing that the average mechanic couldn't service a hybrid system.

[Northeaster]

I believe that Beta (Kubota based) sells 14-22 HP diesels, that can be ordered to fit existing engine beds, when replacing common engines like the A4, and Yanmar 2Gm, etc.

Having bought (and done major work on) a fixer upper, with a working, and still reliable older diesel (1982 Yanmar 2Gm), if I were to do it again I would look at one of two options:

1. As previously mentioned by others, look for an owner (like me) who has done extensive work, or lots of maintenance and upgrading, who, if he needs to sell, will never recoup their investment in equipment $$ (not to mention labour).

2. Find a well designed, well proven baot, with a sound hull and decks, with a dead or near dead engine that brings it's value down. Buy a Beta or similar replacement engine, knowing you will need to redo exhaust, wiring, etc, but not reinvent the wheel when it comes to redesigning engine beds, etc. Check with other owners who have repowered to anticipate possible problems.
You should be able to find a solid 28-30'er for $5-8K, with a dead engine.
Ask around boatyards for neglected boats, and make an offer if the hull / deck is solid.

[mitiempo]

There are good boats out there for reasonable prices. Here's one Tartan 27 Sailboat (hull #220)
Well equipped and repowered with a Westerbeke 13hp 2 cylinder.
Brian

[Jasper Windvane]

wind magic ,, are you always so disagreeable? Rather than invent what I am thinking... read the posting. I am posing a question. I've owned expensive boats, and I've owned cheap boats. The point is, there are many very worthy, good looking, well equipped sailboats, sound, stout, sailboats sitting at docks, in boatyards, and for sale, that have one big problem: the engine, inboard engine. Sure, could go out and repower with a nice Yanmar, spend $8000 dollars, or rebuild the AT4, spend $5000 dollars. What I'm wondering, why not a different approach. The Maine schooners use push boats. Racing yachts mostly get towed. Then there are the Pardeys, no engine. Of course, they sail open ocean where the wind is prevailing, and they make long passages. And they take a tow. That's ok, no problem there.. I sail along, single handed. If not for that, I'd use the push boat ideas in a heart beat. Sure, it would limit some sailing. And I'm sure I'd need to watch the tides much more. But say I bought a very worthy, sound sailboat with good sailing equipment: rig/sails/hull/deck/.. think what that $12,000 dollars I'd save on no engine could purchase.. whew.. I'm going to the shopping part of sailnet.. this could be fun... Let's think..?? Start with Solar Power.. Stereo, tV, .. Windvane ... Wind Power. And I will still have money left over .. YeS.

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by Jasper Windvane

wind magic ,, are you always so disagreeable?

Not always. I wasn't trying to be, and I apologize if I was.

[Jasper Windvane]

Apology accepted.. and let's move on to better ports.. Actually you were not all that disagreeable,, just cantankerous. which is disagreeable with class.. hahah

Found a couple more beauties,, same problem .. the engine.. Crazy.. Driving myself nuts looking at these boats. Question: what is the smallest diesel inboard sold today? Might be a kinda solution, underpower the boat. Heck, does not take much to get to the dock, or mooring. On my old Bristol the AT4 never put out more than about 12hp, at least that is what one so called expert told me.. and the engine is rated at 30hp I think. Mostly, I used the engine is very low rpm, idle speed. With a diesel, low rpm, a smaller hp will produce more push, right?

Gotta find that one in a million..

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by Jasper Windvane

Apology accepted.. and let's move on to better ports.. Actually you were not all that disagreeable,, just cantankerous. which is disagreeable with class.. hahah

Thank you, that was very generous.

I agree, let's get back to the thread ...

[tommays]

The twin hydraulic thing with a central power plant has been done on a big CAT and unfortunately for the owner it was done BADLY and is on a blog out there someplace .

The single cylinder Diesel much like my single cylinder outboard is just and evil shaking beast compared to its 2 and 3 cylinder brothers

$4800 (East Boston) Your kidding your self if you think a boat at this price does not have serious issues



This will most likely be the best place in the boat

I am starting with a boat that's screwed because i like the boat and don't expect to recoup the cost and nobody WHO TAKES GOOD care of there boat recoups the cost .


The yard bills on my friends like NEW 20 year old Tartan 372 has easly exceeded the purchase price





This in one of the my best how bad even a mast can make a boat look and to take it apart RIGHT paint it and put it back together is well over 600 dollars JUST in material and parts with enough hours to make your head spin if you don't want to do a hack job

[cnc33voodoo]

Jasper,
My boat had an atomic 4 when I bought it.It ran like crap but luckily was a fresh water engine.
I took it out myself, stripped it, sent the head out to a machine shop to get refinished and ordered all new seals and gaskets.
I stripped, cleaned and painted everything for reassembly.
There were a few parts I figured I should replace in the cooling system and ordered from moyer.Some Were available from locals who carried the parts in "like new" condition after a couple hours of research.
Basically, I replaced anything questionable, painted it and slapped it back in.
Total cost was $2000, all ready to go by the time I launched.
Additional costs were a new alloy tank and a new muffler this past season.
The engine has run like a clock for 2 years now.No issues ever.There was other work required such as new guages, re-wiring, installing a fuel filter, water seperator and new blower motor but this was part of owning an older boat and reflective of the price I paid.
I change the oil twice a year ($20), do a tune up once a year ($100) and change the impellar once a year ($25).
My father has an original 73 a4 in his boat that runs perfect.
These are good engines if you take the time to get to know them and do the proper maintence.Anything you need to know is in the shop manual.
Dont get me wrong, I would trade for a new diesel in a heartbeat but I really like my boat and until its financially possible im working with what I have.

[klem]

It seems to me that there are two schools of thought going on is these threads assuming an engine will be used. One school is that the engine is only required for docking and the other one sees it as an alternate mode of transportation. These two different views produce a wildly different engine criteria. I get the impression that the OP is looking for the docking only type of engine. Luckily, this engine could also be used to power the boat in flat calm conditions, it just won't be powerful enough to push into any wind or waves. That would mean that you would need a sail inventory that allowed sailing in all weather that you might experience including severe thunderstorms with 50 knot winds. It would also mean investing in really good ground tackle that you knew would set everytime and be able to hold during those high wind events. In some senses, people make a trade off between investing in a really reliable engine or really good sail inventory and ground tackle. Ideally, you would have both but a significant portion of people do not.

So Jasper Windvane, so that I am clear, is the motor for negotiation the marina in normal wind conditions only or do you plan on covering a lot of miles under power?