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post #1 of 7 Old 12-02-2009 Thread Starter
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Talking buying a new yacht jeanneau 45ds worldwide

Hello, i have never bought a new yacht before and was after a little advise.

My intent is to buy a Jeanneau 45DS and pick it up in France. I am based in Sydney and happy to travel.

I meet with my local dealer the other day to look at the boats. He is a very nice guy (in case his reading). My questions are:

1. Jeanneau publish a price in their catalog is there any room for negotiation?
2. If so what is reasonable?
3. Should i shop around for dealers in other countries for a better deal?
4. Any other advise on buying a new boat?

Thanks

Dean
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post #2 of 7 Old 12-03-2009 Thread Starter
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anyone?
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post #3 of 7 Old 12-03-2009
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Just about everything in life is negotiable. They won't take you out, and shoot you. The worst that can happen is they will laugh in your face, and say no. There is never any harm in trying to negotiate........i2f

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post #4 of 7 Old 12-03-2009
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Dean,

Not sure how it works in Aus, but with most major purchases here in the US, price is negotiable. My impression with boats is that the best deals come on those with the most options. In other words, the dealer may have a base price they can't go much below, but what they can sometimes offer instead are some costly options at very attractive pricing.

I saw you have another thread running concurrently about options on a new boat. I'll post some comments there.


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post #5 of 7 Old 12-03-2009
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At least in the U.S., typically, and especially in these times, the manufacturers recommended price is much higher than a dealer will actually sell a boat. I can't speak for the E.U. or for Jeanneau, but that seems to be the reality these days.

While I can't speak to the specifics of your deal, historically, the suggested base price, before any incentives that were already offered, was somewhere around 10% to 15% higher than what dealers were able to offer you on a floor planned model. In the past, the negotiated discount on options varied between 15% and 30% off depending on the item and the dealer.

It is hard to offer you specific advice since you have not described your goals for the boat in any detail. My general sense in reading your post is that it really does not make a whole lot of sense unless your plan is to cruise around Europe anyway and then ship home a used boat to reduce your import tax.

As I look at this, I can't understand why you are making the choices that you are. As I see it, Jeanneau's are a high volume commody boat, one step down from a Beneteau in terms of build quality and standard equipage. The model that you are looking at is not really the kind of purpose built off-shore voyaging design (such as a Hallberg Rassey or Hylas for example) that I would want to sail half way around the world. That leaves you with two bad choices on the Jeanneau, either shipping it home or else sailing it home. If you ship it home, the boat builders generally get much better shipping rates than you or I can get and also have the expertise and equipment to pack the boat easily and safely. They also take the risks if something goes wrong prior to delivery to you. If they ship it you typically have the right to a survey on arriveal and to reject the boat if it arrives damaged. If you buy the boat in Europe, you are on your own.

If you chose to sail the boat home, a voyage like that in a boat that was not intended for that kind of long distance voyaging, increases the likelihood that what will arrive in Australia will be a very tired, very used boat, with a greatly depreciated value. Unless your key goal is to experience the trip from Europe to Australia, then sailing home makes less than zero sense at all, and even if your key goal were the trip home, you would be far and away ahead of the game to make the trip in a boat that was actually intended for that purpose.

But the other thing is that there are really high quality boats built in your corner of the world and even some of these may seem more expensive initially, by the time that you buy a boat in Europe and get it home, it would seem like either buying one of these higher quality boats, or perhaps the Jeanneau that you have in mind in Australia would make a lot more sense.

Respectfully,
Jeff


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post #6 of 7 Old 12-03-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
At least in the U.S., typically, and especially in these times, the manufacturers recommended price is much higher than a dealer will actually sell a boat. I can't speak for the E.U. or for Jeanneau, but that seems to be the reality these days.

While I can't speak to the specifics of your deal, historically, the suggested base price, before any incentives that were already offered, was somewhere around 10% to 15% higher than what dealers were able to offer you on a floor planned model. In the past, the negotiated discount on options varied between 15% and 30% off depending on the item and the dealer.

It is hard to offer you specific advice since you have not described your goals for the boat in any detail. My general sense in reading your post is that it really does not make a whole lot of sense unless your plan is to cruise around Europe anyway and then ship home a used boat to reduce your import tax.

As I look at this, I can't understand why you are making the choices that you are. As I see it, Jeanneau's are a high volume commody boat, one step down from a Beneteau in terms of build quality and standard equipage. The model that you are looking at is not really the kind of purpose built off-shore voyaging design (such as a Hallberg Rassey or Hylas for example) that I would want to sail half way around the world. That leaves you with two bad choices on the Jeanneau, either shipping it home or else sailing it home. If you ship it home, the boat builders generally get much better shipping rates than you or I can get and also have the expertise and equipment to pack the boat easily and safely. They also take the risks if something goes wrong prior to delivery to you. If they ship it you typically have the right to a survey on arriveal and to reject the boat if it arrives damaged. If you buy the boat in Europe, you are on your own.

If you chose to sail the boat home, a voyage like that in a boat that was not intended for that kind of long distance voyaging, increases the likelihood that what will arrive in Australia will be a very tired, very used boat, with a greatly depreciated value. Unless your key goal is to experience the trip from Europe to Australia, then sailing home makes less than zero sense at all, and even if your key goal were the trip home, you would be far and away ahead of the game to make the trip in a boat that was actually intended for that purpose.

But the other thing is that there are really high quality boats built in your corner of the world and even some of these may seem more expensive initially, by the time that you buy a boat in Europe and get it home, it would seem like either buying one of these higher quality boats, or perhaps the Jeanneau that you have in mind in Australia would make a lot more sense.

Respectfully,
Jeff

Jeff H is one of the most sound, respected authorities on this board. His advice has guided many a newbie as well as experienced sailors alike. In general, he is correct that brands like Jeanneau, Beneteau, Catalina, Hunter, etc are nowhere close to purpose build bluewater cruisers.

*HOWEVER*...a large (40 ft+) Jeanneau or Beneteau which is equipped and crewed properly would be a boat that can make an ocean crossing with the right weather. In fact, many larger Jeanneaus and Beneteaus do this regularly as part of the Atlantic Rally for Cruisers.

It all depends on what your goal is. Is it to cruise the caribbean then poke along for a while to make it to AUS? Then I'd be ok with buying a factory boat if the price was that much lower than local. But if its to buy in EU then RUSH back to AUS, forget it...buy local and new...it will be a well used boat if you expose it to the ocean in a rush to get home.

FYI...there are 17 Jeanneaus in this years ARC.
Entry List for World Cruising Club: ARC

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post #7 of 7 Old 12-18-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandavis1 View Post
Hello, i have never bought a new yacht before and was after a little advise.

My intent is to buy a Jeanneau 45DS and pick it up in France. I am based in Sydney and happy to travel.
.....
Thanks

Dean
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Hello there,

That's the right time to buy a boat.

As have been said you can have at least a 10% discount plus the offer of several equipment if you buy now. For the best offer you should ask a quote to the biggest dealers or go to a major boat show and make your deal there. You just missed the Paris boat show, but the biggest of them all is coming soon: The Dusseldorf boat show.

But of course, if you buy there it will be for the fun of sailing back...and it will make no sense if you do it in a hurry.

As Jeff as said, a 45 Halberg Rassy would be a better boat for ocean going, but for the price you pay for the 45 jeanneau you would end up with a 34ft Halberg Rassy...and that one would be less appropriate to ocean crossing.

I don't know why jeff says that the Jeanneau is a worst boat than Beneteau. It seems to me they are equivalent in build quality, with jeanneau with a bit more build technology (injection molding). They belong to the same group and just point to different markets.

I believe Nightowl is right. Most big production 40ft are capable of crossing oceans, if properly equipped for the job. Of course, I am talking in the right season and not on extreme latitudes.

A Portuguese fisherman from Azores bought a 36ft Bavaria and has circumnavigated twice (solo) and I know of many guys (some friends) that have crossed the Atlantic with modern big production 36ft boats. The unsworthiness of modern production boats is exaggerated.

If you look for a good deal on the 45DS just look for a 2007 or 2008 boat. There are several for sale in Europe, and you can save 70 000 euros and have a practically new boat.

regards[/FONT]
fficeffice" />>>

Last edited by PCP; 12-18-2009 at 07:40 PM.
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