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post #1 of 16 Old 12-30-2009 Thread Starter
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Idea for new type of sailing rig

I had this strange idea a few years back for a sailing rig but I never did anything with it. I imagine others must have had similar ideas and I was just wondering if anyone has ever tried anything like this. This idea (assuming it actually works) would completely eliminate any healing force. It goes something like this: Imagine your sail was tilted towards the wind. Now move the whole sail (mast, boom, everything) far leeward all the way off the deck but imagine the whole thing is somehow still attached to the boat. At some point the force vector from the sail will pass under the boat and it will actually want to heal into the wind. I think it's easier to picture if we just consider the boat close hauled for now. In any case, somewhere in-between there is a balance and you don't need a weighted keel anymore. It's almost like the sail would act like a kite except with a solid string.

So now, all we need is a way to move the sail from side to side and have it tilt in towards the wind at the same time. I think I'll need to draw a picture to explain the actual rig, but first does anyone have any thoughts about the principal of the whole thing? Has it been tried before?
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post #2 of 16 Old 12-30-2009
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I believe a sailboard works on a similar principle. Using the the weight of the rider, the mast and sail are pulled into the wind to eliminate heel. The universal joint connecting the mast to the board also allows the mast to be raked forward and aft to eliminate weather helm and steer the board.

I can easily imagine a similar system on a keel boat using adjustable stays or hydraulics to adjust the mast.

Greg
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By fearing to attempt."
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post #3 of 16 Old 12-30-2009 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ogrenaut View Post
I believe a sailboard works on a similar principle. Using the the weight of the rider, the mast and sail are pulled into the wind to eliminate heel.
I think you may have misunderstood something. This idea does not eliminate heal based on weight at all. Your description of a sailboard sounds correct to me. However with a sailboard the sail is still directiy attached to the board at the base. It can only be tilted, but the whole thing can not be moved to leeward.

With this rig the base of the mast would be moved far off the boat to leeward and attached to the boat with a spar. There are a few more control spars to keep everything in place and let it swing. In essence of the whole idea is there simply is no healing force to being with so you don't need to counter it with weight.
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post #4 of 16 Old 12-30-2009
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Ogrenaut was describing how a wind surfer/board sailor works. I would disagree that there is no 'heeling force' though on a wind surfer with a sail full of wind. The 'heeling force' of the sail is offset by the riders body. Anyone who has used a harness on one of these can also tell you what it is like being pulled into the water by the sail and harness.
Polyp, a diagram of some kind would go a long way towards describing your idea.

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post #5 of 16 Old 12-30-2009
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One of the English boat publications (yachting world? Practical Boat Owner?.. I can't remember) has an article of a boat that's all tooled up and ready for production.. there was an interesting article and review. So no, not a dumb idea, but someone's already done it.
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post #6 of 16 Old 12-30-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypterus View Post
With this rig the base of the mast would be moved far off the boat to leeward and attached to the boat with a spar.
I did misunderstand this part at first. Let me give this another stab.

Your sail, mast and boom are essentially a vertical wing. By moving the base leeward and the head windward, you're introducing a horizontal component.

I'm now imagining you mast as pendulum with the pivot at or near the top of the mast and the base swinging side to side.

Just kind of brain storming here. Interesting idea. Good luck.

Greg
s/v Selkie
1972 Bristol 32, #64
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And make us lose the good we oft might win
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post #7 of 16 Old 12-30-2009 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ogrenaut View Post
I did misunderstand this part at first. Let me give this another stab.

Your sail, mast and boom are essentially a vertical wing. By moving the base leeward and the head windward, you're introducing a horizontal component.

I'm now imagining you mast as pendulum with the pivot at or near the top of the mast and the base swinging side to side.

Just kind of brain storming here. Interesting idea. Good luck.
Sort of. The whole sail is actually moved leeward, only the base moves quite a bit more than the top. The idea is for force vector of the sail to pull directly opposite of the keel. Therefore it has to pull somewhat up from the water at an angle. I'll try to post a picture as soon as I fix my damned scanner driver fixed.
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post #8 of 16 Old 12-30-2009
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Do I understand that this plan would be as if the base of the mast was on a traveler?
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post #9 of 16 Old 12-30-2009
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Try a twin mast catamaran ... same idea if you only raise the windward sail
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post #10 of 16 Old 12-30-2009
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Attention! Attention! There is no "a" in heel. That is all. As you were.

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