Completed Marine Survey Provided by Selling Broker. Trustworthy?

[turban10]

Hello All,

I have started my very first sailboat search.
I live in Chicago, I often search the brokers in the area. One of them is selling a Ericson 32, which got my interest. On their website, it list a marine survery from November 2009, and a machanical evaluation report from the same month. Both of these evaluations were done at Crowleys Ship yard.

So my question is this: How much trust can I put in to these reports? Do i need to hire another surveyor to check the boat out if one was already done two months ago?
The mechanical eval shows that there is about 3500 dollars worth of repairs to be done to the engine, shaft, prop and electricals. I certainly could use the money that i save on a surveyor to toward these repairs.

At the same time, I am weary of the possible conflict of interest between boat yard, surveryor, and the broker.

You input and experiences are greatly appareciated.

[arf145]

You're right to be wary. If the surveys were commissioned by the owner or broker, for me at least, they would only qualify as information to go along with my own evaluation of the boat. But I would absolutely get my own survey from an independent qualified surveyor anyway.

I understand the temptation to calculate the savings vs. "how much more can there be?," but the problem with boats is that there can be some very large, deal-killing big stuff lurking in there. I'd get my own survey done.

[Zanshin]

Could this be an "insurance survey", which differs greatly in scope from a general survey?

[KeelHaulin]

You should always hire your own surveyor to inspect the boat. You should also walk through several boats in your price range; and above your price range to see different equipment configurations and different amounts of refit work completed. If you are looking at a lien sale boat you need to decide if the below market price justifies any potential problems that have gone unseen (since you won't have time to research other boats).

Standing rigging and sails are important; and can get expensive to replace. If not recently replaced you should consider what new sails/rig would cost in the overall price of the boat.

YOU should be fairly sure that the boat you are interested in buying meets your criteria for a sound purchase. You should buy the book by Don Casey that is about boat survey/selection and do your walk-through with these considerations in mind before you decide to enter a purchase contract, sea trial, or hire a surveyor. You might find something with your self-survey that is a deal breaker; which would save you the cost of the surveyor.

The winter is not the best time to be looking at a boat purchase in Chicago; usually you would want to be able to hoist sails and sea-trial. You might want to hold off until spring.

[k1vsk]

Originally Posted by turban10

On their website, it list a marine survery from November 2009, and a machanical evaluation report from the same month. Both of these evaluations were done at Crowleys Ship yard.

So my question is this: How much trust can I put in to these reports? .

It is good to be skeptical but rather than blindly ignore this survey, find out from Crowley for whom it was done and why. It could well be a perspective purchaser's survey the current broker is willing to disclose. Don't jump to snap judgments until you have some basis to make one.

[catamount]

How much are you willing to risk in buying the boat? Assuming you're not taking out a loan, nor will you be insuring it, you don't NEED to get the boat surveyed at all -- you can just buy it. But there is some risk... caveat emptor and all that.

Most people are not willing to fork over 10's or 100's of thousands of dollars without at least some kind of assurance that they're not buying a total lemon, and thus they hire somebody with more expertise than they have themselves to inspect the thing first (whether it's a boat or a house, or whatever).

So really it's up to you. How confident are you in your own abilities to inspect the boat, and interpret the prior survey? How much money are you offering on the boat? Is it a lot or a little (to you!)? If you don't get your own survey and then you discover some problem later (that your own survey likely would have turned up), will you be able to live with yourself? etc...

Fun, isn't it?

[Faster]

I like K1vsk's point... if this was a survey done for a prior potential purchaser it may have some merit on its own - but you'd still benefit greatly from a walkthrough with your own surveyor - you'll learn a lot about this boat that will stand you in good stead should you buy it, and I'd be pretty interested in a second opinion on "$3500 worth of work" on the mechanicals, esp if the eval was done by the yard that would do the work.

[bljones]

A recent survey is a great document, but it is also a historical snapshot, which may or may not have any bearing on the condition of the boat now. It's great to know what was wrong with the boat in November, but since that time what has happened?
Did the owners get so disgusted by the engine estimate that they decided to walk away from the boat and tore out a lot of gear to take with them?
Did they repair the engine, meaning that the boat may be BETTER than the old survey indicates?
Have you had any wind or snow since the survey? Any below freezing temps? Think that might have potentially caused some damage that a pre-winter survey would not disclose?

Your iunsurance company will want a CURRENT survey.
Your bank will want a CURRENT survey, unless you are paying cash in which case, YOU want a CURRENT survey, so you know whether you are spending your cash or blowing your cash, and finally,
Your bank account wants a CURRENT survey. If the survey costs you less than $1000 and gives you the leverage to knock $1001 off the price, then the survey didn't cost you a dime, it just made you money.

[sck5]

I got my boat a couple of years ago from a guy who had a survey done in the previous year and receipts for the work done to correct what they found. I had my own survey done anyway and it was money well spent. They didnt find anything major, but they did teach me a lot about my boat as well as make crystal clear what the previous surveyor meant (e.g. when they say sails are "serviceable" they mean that they are triangular and white with no holes - i.e. you need new ones)

[turban10]

Thank you for all your responses. I have to agree that getting my own surveyor will make let me sleep better at night.
...And yes, i agree that right now is not a good time to buy, especially in Chicago. I wouldn't be very comfortable purchasing a boat without a sea trial.

Speaking of sea trials. Since this would be my first boat, can i hire the surveyor to come on the sea trial (obviously for a fee) and watch for things that i miss? Is this something marine surveyors do?