Winter's Sailing Center: Slip rental question

TakeFive · #1 02-05-2010

I have a few questions about Winter's Sailing Center in New Jersey that could affect the timing and amount of an offer that I plan to make on a boat there:

For previous slip renters, when does Winter's require deposit and/or full seasonal payment for the coming season?
What is the last date they will allow you to launch if it is on the hard in their lot?
If you launch a boat and plan to take it to another marina, what transient slip fees would they charge of you had to leave it there for a few days before you could take it away?
Will Winter's allow you to paint your own bottom on the hard, or do they require you to pay them and/or buy the supplies from them?

MJBrown · #2 02-05-2010

We've bought two boats from them and they are very flexible, especially when you've just purchased a boat from them. Not sure about the deposit for summer slips. As far as leaving it there for a few days after launch I doubt they would charge you anything. Yes you can bottom paint it yourself. My boat is there for the winter and I plan on touching her up myself. I have friends that do as well. BTW their prices on paint and other supplies are competitive with West, Defender and others. I would talk to Don or Brian about your questions. Again they're usually very flexible. BTW what are looking at?

TakeFive · #3 02-05-2010

I know they are very flexible when you buy a boat from them. But I am planning to make an offer on a FSBO instead. Based on what the seller has told me, I think he's done some things to annoy them (and me) - including his refusal to pay my broker's commission, or Winter's, or any other broker. My broker has busted his butt for 4 months helping to find me a boat, so I am paying him out of my pocket. This guy seems to know very little about his own boat, and knows even less about how to sell one. If anyone needed a broker, he does, but he doesn't seem to "get it," so I have to pay my own broker to help me with the transaction.

I've talked to Don and Brian many times before, and they've been very helpful when I was considering their boats. But I'm going to buy this other guy's boat, and they will not be totally happy about that either.

Look, this is not really about getting flexibility from Winter's. This is about knowing when his payment deadlines are, since my negotiating power will be stronger if this guy is going to owe a years' worth of slip fees if he turns down my offer. If I can time it right, I might be lucky enough place my offer the day before his money is due. So in some ways I could benefit from their lack of flexibility.

MJBrown · #4 02-05-2010

RD sorry I misunderstood your question. While I don't have the cut off date I'm fairly certain they hold firm on it. I don't know of a marina that doesn't, although some may be doing so due to the poor boating economy. Good luck in dealing with the seller. Apparently he's either convinced he can get his price and terms or he's not in a hurry to sell it. Have you had it surveyed yet? It may help in negotiations if you have some issues to use as bargaining power. BTW you'll likely have to contact Winters to find out about their due dates.

TakeFive · #5 02-05-2010

No need to apologize - I greatly appreciate the input that you made. I did not make my question very clear, partly because I don't want to vent my frustrations in public. I'm still hoping to make it to the AC boat show on Sunday, so I'll be able to talk to Don and Brian there.

No survey yet - I'm planning to put in a contingency for survey and sea trial, but he's resisting the latter, saying he did not require one when he bought it a year ago. Of course, that makes it all the more important for me to do one - why should I repeat his mistake? (There I go venting again.

)

This is part of the reason for my question about transient slip fees, because once we splash it for the sea trial, it may have to sit in the water a few days while escrow clears.

sailingdog · #6 02-06-2010

I'd point out that if there is a possibility that he will owe any money to the marina, that you may want to put aside part of the purchase price in escrow to cover it. Also, you would want the P&S agreement to clearly state that the boat is free and clear of all encumbrances or something to that effect.

Otherwise, the boatyard can place a lien on the boat, and if the boat is not USCG documented, you may not know about the lien until it is too late.

This guy sounds like a real jackass, and if he's in financial trouble, which it does sound like, he may stiff the yard payment until he sells the boat... or stiff them completely and leave it as a problem for the new owner of the boat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhythmDoctor

I know they are very flexible when you buy a boat from them. But I am planning to make an offer on a FSBO instead. Based on what the seller has told me, I think he's done some things to annoy them (and me) - including his refusal to pay my broker's commission, or Winter's, or any other broker. My broker has busted his butt for 4 months helping to find me a boat, so I am paying him out of my pocket. This guy seems to know very little about his own boat, and knows even less about how to sell one. If anyone needed a broker, he does, but he doesn't seem to "get it," so I have to pay my own broker to help me with the transaction.

I've talked to Don and Brian many times before, and they've been very helpful when I was considering their boats. But I'm going to buy this other guy's boat, and they will not be totally happy about that either.

Look, this is not really about getting flexibility from Winter's. This is about knowing when his payment deadlines are, since my negotiating power will be stronger if this guy is going to owe a years' worth of slip fees if he turns down my offer. If I can time it right, I might be lucky enough place my offer the day before his money is due. So in some ways I could benefit from their lack of flexibility.

Tempest · #7 02-06-2010

Doctor,

I hope this boat is a real honey...because it sounds like you're jumping through hoops to own her.
This is a very painful start and would probably have caused me to walk.

I can't speak to Winter's deadlines, my Marina here in north jersey, requires payment in full before boat wet...or april 25th whichever comes sooner, if you have signed a slip contract. After 4/25 without a slip contract, you start racking up storage fees.

If he's selling and not signing a summer slip contract, he'll have racked up winter storage which it sounds like he owes....and then after the cutoff date? he'll start acruing storage fees.

Since he's pissed them off...Winter's will not even launch for a test sail until he's paid up in full for what he owes...and then it sounds like the seller will try to make you pay for the launch for a trial sail....on top of the survey? And if you don't buy? a re-haul?

Would you be keeping her at Winters? They might roll the transient fees into a summer contract, if you were staying.

I'd make an offer that you're comfortable with give it a time limit and then walk away...if he continues to be an AH. Good Luck...

TakeFive · #8 02-06-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog

I'd point out that if there is a possibility that he will owe any money to the marina, that you may want to put aside part of the purchase price in escrow to cover it. Also, you would want the P&S agreement to clearly state that the boat is free and clear of all encumbrances or something to that effect.

Otherwise, the boatyard can place a lien on the boat, and if the boat is not USCG documented, you may not know about the lien until it is too late.

This guy sounds like a real jackass, and if he's in financial trouble, which it does sound like, he may stiff the yard payment until he sells the boat... or stiff them completely and leave it as a problem for the new owner of the boat.

One of the dangers of venting on a public forum is that I could portray this guy as a jerk, and in so doing make myself look like one also. He is basically a real nice guy. He is just a little naive about how a boat should be bought and sold, and he severely undervalues the importance of a broker's services when both the buyer and seller are inexperienced, as we are. Negotiations like this are always a little tense by their nature, since the buyer and seller have different objectives at this stage. But once we get through that we will both have the same objective.

My broker is a fully licensed professional with 30+ years experience as a full-time broker, and his contract has a good clause regarding liens and encumbrances. He always uses an escrow service that also does doc prep and title searches. I have no reason to believe that the seller is in financial trouble or that he owes the marina money. The annoyances between him and the marina are over naive assumptions that he made around getting free haul-outs as part of the slip fees, etc. It seems that he fails to realize that brokers and marinas are all in business to make a decent living, and deserve to be paid. This stuff isn't free - nor should it be.

MJBrown · #9 02-06-2010

RD he does sound a bit inexperienced. Stick to your guns and remember you have something he wants, money

BTW we too are considering heading down tomorrow. We're going to wait and see how well they clean up the roads.

JimMcGee · #10 02-06-2010

RhythmDoctor,
In my dealings with Don he's always been a fair guy. Drop into the showroom, tell him the boat you're considering, and ask if he'd check to make sure the seller doesn't owe any money to Winters. Don't be surprised if Don knows the history of the boat, and maybe a bit about it and the owner. There's a good surveyor right down the street and she has a good relationship with Winters (I think I already sent you her name). Talk with Don about arranging a short term transient slip (not Nancy in the office).

FWIW, if the current owner had a run in with Nancy he wouldn't be the first.

Just curious if Tony Tumas is your broker? I know he's done some work recently with Riverside.

What boat did you finally end up buying?

Jim