Preemptive Strike - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 03-07-2010
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 69
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
jwreck is on a distinguished road
I've never understood this whole concept that killing accomplishes nothing. Killing has accomplished a great deal throughout history. There are certainly times when killing someone is justified. If you think that sinking a couple of ships and then escorting the pirates to shore where they will simply regroup and re-arm is a solution to piracy, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 03-15-2010
blackjenner's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: in a condo
Posts: 250
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
blackjenner is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by tager View Post
Ha. There is no such thing as "the good guys."
They are the winners, who write the history.

Or, they are the ones who do the right thing.

Sometimes those two can get confused.

Let's call this scoring one for the guys to took on the not so nice guys so the decent folk can go about their business.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 03-15-2010
blackjenner's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: in a condo
Posts: 250
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
blackjenner is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by tager View Post
The point is that some people killed some other people and now you are saying "score one for the good guys."

I am totally against piracy, and I believe that those pirates got what was coming to them. However, I don't cheer when people die.

Who were the "much better guys" at Hiroshima?

I am not comparing this event to Hiroshima, they are totally different. I am trying to illustrate that killing fellow humans is never good. When you tread on the safety of others by being a pirate, you accept death as a possible fate. I still think killing people is wrong, and so is scuttling ships.

Doesn't it pollute the ocean? Isn't it an irresponsible way to deal with lead, petroleum products, and other chemicals?

Maybe you guys think I am an "enviro-nut" or a "liberal" or whatever.

I would not hesitate to kill pirates. However, I wouldn't celebrate their defeat as they swam helpless in the water, soon to die. Humans.
Wow...did you read a lot into not only the story but he responses of some of the people who praised the work of the military.

I've been a soldier, a mercenary and a cop. Killing is not something I would cheer. However, killing is not, on it's face, wrong.

Looking at it in such black and white terms denies the complexities of the issues around the "use of deadly force to defend yourself or another against grave bodily injury or death."
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 03-15-2010
blackjenner's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: in a condo
Posts: 250
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
blackjenner is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by tager View Post
Let me say that this is not my standpoint, in fact I agree with you, but I am just attempting to debunk the myth that some killers are better than others. (I am assuming here that they scuttling included captain and crew.)
You bet some killers are better than others.

If I put my life on the line to defend your life, or the lives of your loved ones, and have to take the life of another to defend same, then have to deal with the psychological impacts of it, you bet I'm "better" than the person who intended to harm you or yours.

There's nothing prideful about having to face that. There's nothing good about the actual act.

But there is the reality of Good Men, willing to do Very Bad Things, for Very Good Reasons.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 03-15-2010
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,377
Thanks: 90
Thanked 92 Times in 86 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
black - nicely defined.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 03-15-2010
krozet's Avatar
Waiting For Spring
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Aurora, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 424
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
krozet is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackjenner View Post
But there is the reality of Good Men, willing to do Very Bad Things, for Very Good Reasons.
And I thank my lucky stars that there are such people each and everyday. I wouldn't have the freedoms that so may take for granted today if not for Men and Women willing to stand up and take that responsibility upon themselves. Could I be a soldier or a police officer? I don't think so. Could I shoot a pirate that boarded my ship? I don't know but there are people willing to protect me and protect my freedoms.

Too many people think they are better than those willing to protect them because they 'Wouldn't Kill' another or look back on history with contempt at events like Hiroshima and project their 'high morals' because people died at the hands of other. These hypocrite would certainly denounce what the Nazi's did and then denounce what the allies did to stop them?

I invite such people to take the next flight to Mogadishu and try to pass on these high morals to said pirates. I'm sure it will go over well...

Robert
__________________
1971 Contest 33 Hull Number 24

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."

Mark Twain
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 03-15-2010
CharlieCobra's Avatar
On the hard
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bellingham, WA.
Posts: 3,503
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
CharlieCobra has a spectacular aura about CharlieCobra has a spectacular aura about
Hiroshima and Nagasaki.... Let's see, an estimated casualty rate over 1 million for the Allies alone or the 150,000 folks killed by the bombs? Even knowing the history since then, which choice do ya think I'd make?
__________________
Baggett and Sons Marine Restoration
The Landing at Colony Wharf
Bellingham, WA.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 03-15-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
And digging the Japanese out of the rest of the Pacific and Asia would have cost a lot more than those 1,000,000 Allied casualties. The Japanese Empire was a monster...
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieCobra View Post
Hiroshima and Nagasaki.... Let's see, an estimated casualty rate over 1 million for the Allies alone or the 150,000 folks killed by the bombs? Even knowing the history since then, which choice do ya think I'd make?
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 03-15-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
wcsailor is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
...The Japanese Empire was a monster...
Yes Sdog, anyone having read "The Rape of Nanking" would agree. Thanks for standing up for the truth of history...much of which gets 'creatively rewritten.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 03-15-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Well, I know about it from the Korean perspective. Some of my family's friends had relatives that served as "comfort women".
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
INDIAN SEAFARERS? STRIKE AVERTED (Maritime Global Net) NewsReader News Feeds 0 09-11-2006 06:16 AM
Lightning Strike! Kathy Barron Seamanship Articles 0 04-07-2005 08:00 PM
Lightning Strike! Kathy Barron Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 04-07-2005 08:00 PM
Lightning Strike! Kathy Barron Cruising Articles 0 04-07-2005 08:00 PM
Lightening strike SailVicEC Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 9 08-03-2004 03:26 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:19 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.