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post #21 of 57 Old 03-07-2010
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I've never understood this whole concept that killing accomplishes nothing. Killing has accomplished a great deal throughout history. There are certainly times when killing someone is justified. If you think that sinking a couple of ships and then escorting the pirates to shore where they will simply regroup and re-arm is a solution to piracy, then I have a bridge to sell you.
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post #22 of 57 Old 03-15-2010
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Ha. There is no such thing as "the good guys."
They are the winners, who write the history.

Or, they are the ones who do the right thing.

Sometimes those two can get confused.

Let's call this scoring one for the guys to took on the not so nice guys so the decent folk can go about their business.
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post #23 of 57 Old 03-15-2010
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The point is that some people killed some other people and now you are saying "score one for the good guys."

I am totally against piracy, and I believe that those pirates got what was coming to them. However, I don't cheer when people die.

Who were the "much better guys" at Hiroshima?

I am not comparing this event to Hiroshima, they are totally different. I am trying to illustrate that killing fellow humans is never good. When you tread on the safety of others by being a pirate, you accept death as a possible fate. I still think killing people is wrong, and so is scuttling ships.

Doesn't it pollute the ocean? Isn't it an irresponsible way to deal with lead, petroleum products, and other chemicals?

Maybe you guys think I am an "enviro-nut" or a "liberal" or whatever.

I would not hesitate to kill pirates. However, I wouldn't celebrate their defeat as they swam helpless in the water, soon to die. Humans.
Wow...did you read a lot into not only the story but he responses of some of the people who praised the work of the military.

I've been a soldier, a mercenary and a cop. Killing is not something I would cheer. However, killing is not, on it's face, wrong.

Looking at it in such black and white terms denies the complexities of the issues around the "use of deadly force to defend yourself or another against grave bodily injury or death."
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post #24 of 57 Old 03-15-2010
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Let me say that this is not my standpoint, in fact I agree with you, but I am just attempting to debunk the myth that some killers are better than others. (I am assuming here that they scuttling included captain and crew.)
You bet some killers are better than others.

If I put my life on the line to defend your life, or the lives of your loved ones, and have to take the life of another to defend same, then have to deal with the psychological impacts of it, you bet I'm "better" than the person who intended to harm you or yours.

There's nothing prideful about having to face that. There's nothing good about the actual act.

But there is the reality of Good Men, willing to do Very Bad Things, for Very Good Reasons.
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post #25 of 57 Old 03-15-2010
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black - nicely defined.


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post #26 of 57 Old 03-15-2010 Thread Starter
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But there is the reality of Good Men, willing to do Very Bad Things, for Very Good Reasons.
And I thank my lucky stars that there are such people each and everyday. I wouldn't have the freedoms that so may take for granted today if not for Men and Women willing to stand up and take that responsibility upon themselves. Could I be a soldier or a police officer? I don't think so. Could I shoot a pirate that boarded my ship? I don't know but there are people willing to protect me and protect my freedoms.

Too many people think they are better than those willing to protect them because they 'Wouldn't Kill' another or look back on history with contempt at events like Hiroshima and project their 'high morals' because people died at the hands of other. These hypocrite would certainly denounce what the Nazi's did and then denounce what the allies did to stop them?

I invite such people to take the next flight to Mogadishu and try to pass on these high morals to said pirates. I'm sure it will go over well...

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post #27 of 57 Old 03-15-2010
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Hiroshima and Nagasaki.... Let's see, an estimated casualty rate over 1 million for the Allies alone or the 150,000 folks killed by the bombs? Even knowing the history since then, which choice do ya think I'd make?

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post #28 of 57 Old 03-15-2010
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And digging the Japanese out of the rest of the Pacific and Asia would have cost a lot more than those 1,000,000 Allied casualties. The Japanese Empire was a monster...
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Hiroshima and Nagasaki.... Let's see, an estimated casualty rate over 1 million for the Allies alone or the 150,000 folks killed by the bombs? Even knowing the history since then, which choice do ya think I'd make?

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post #29 of 57 Old 03-15-2010
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...The Japanese Empire was a monster...
Yes Sdog, anyone having read "The Rape of Nanking" would agree. Thanks for standing up for the truth of history...much of which gets 'creatively rewritten.
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post #30 of 57 Old 03-15-2010
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Well, I know about it from the Korean perspective. Some of my family's friends had relatives that served as "comfort women".

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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