Old boat fun means old boat work! - Page 16 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #151  
Old 08-21-2010
daydreamer92's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 143
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
daydreamer92 is on a distinguished road
Where we're at now

So with the chainplates out and half the cabin cleaned, we didn't do much more before we had the boat moved. We totally cleaned everything out (except for ever present paint chips) and an inch of persistent bilge water, and siphoned/pumped out 15 gallons of gasoline that actually wasn't nearly at watery or gunky as the surveyor had thought -- we used a separator and very little didn't go into the gas can. Then we filled the car with it and the car seemed perfectly happy. Saved us 40 bucks or so on gas!

At the moment, Tigress is still empty except for a manual bilge pump from West Marine (those aren't the best pumps, btw, they squirt a lot of water back out from where the hose doesn't really screw well into the pump). We spent yesterday post-move crawling around and wiggling hoses because we want to replace the manual pump and we were trying to figure out what hose went where. There's at least one mystery hose we haven't sorted out yet. I also found that the boat is sloped back on the stands because water in the cockpit doesn't run forward into the scuppers anymore. That's going to be a little annoying I think, 'cause nobody wants to stand in collected water. Ah well.

The hauler had tied the mast really well to the boat and I made an inquiry to the yard mechanic about who's job it was to take it off.

Me: "Do I need to schedule it being taken off?"

"That's up to you. If I take it off, I'm going to use the crane and it will cost you."

My unspoken thought was that I wasn't sure what the options could otherwise be, us being crane-less and all. The Tartan's mast is not like the Ospray mast where I can pick it up and walk around with it.

I told him to go ahead and do it, even if it will cost something. Not having to do the limbo to duck under the mast and/or the various lines holding the mast to the deck will make working on the boat easier.

That's everything through yesterday; now I'm caught up with our Tartan 27 adventures.
__________________
"Tigress"
1964 Tartan 27

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It may be a hole in the water, but it's mine.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #152  
Old 08-22-2010
daydreamer92's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 143
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
daydreamer92 is on a distinguished road
Rainy Day Sunday

Today it was overcast and started to drizzle the moment we went to do something "outdoors", so we weren't able to do some of the stuff we wanted.

However, we managed to do a few things to the Ospray and one thing for the Tartan 27.

We fetched the Ospray from the storage place down the street and toted it home. With a wheel jack on the tongue of the trailer, it's pretty easy to roll it into our driveway. I trust the condo association will be OK with us having it there for a day or two.

I got the hose and started to rinse it off for the third or so time; trying to get what was left in the cockpit out through the drain hole. Paint chips, tiny bits of styrofoam from the old mast, pine needles, etc. This is when some very light rain started, so I probably looked dumb "washing" my boat in the rain and making this minor eco-disaster.



I also mixed up some TSP and water and gave the hull, deck and seats (can't reach the rest without being in the boat) a wash. It wasn't filthy but there was dirty. A bit scrubbing got some of the black spots off the no-skid and I bet some Ajax or something would have worked better. We are, I think, going to sand and paint that, so I didn't fuss too much.

The gelcoat on the hull has various dings and scratches, not atypical for a boat that's probably not been treated with kid gloves and has banged up against rocks, docks, and whatever. Nothing too bad, though some go through to the glass.

We took off the coamings. A couple screws had to be coerced out, but mostly things came off all right. Armed with a narrow scraper, a rubber mallet and a bored expression, I worked and whacked my way around the cockpick to separate the silicon caulk holding the wood against the fiberglass from the wood so we could gently pry what I think is mahogany off.

It doesn't look that bad without the wood.Better with it, of course, but not that bad without.



You see how worn the cockpit paint is. Floor board inserts go over much of that, but there looks to be two layers of paint that have come up.

Here's another shot towards the stern.



Here's the coaming pieces.



A couple ends of the transom piece were "torn" and soggy/wet. We're thinking of rounding the corners to get rid of the bad wood.


__________________
"Tigress"
1964 Tartan 27

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It may be a hole in the water, but it's mine.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #153  
Old 08-22-2010
daydreamer92's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 143
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
daydreamer92 is on a distinguished road
I suppose we do need the rain...

The weather is supposed to be rainy at least through Wednesday, which is a bummer. So sunny through the summer and now it rains when I have a boat in my driveway I wanted to scrape and paint. Ah well. If it's crappy tomorrow, we'll plop it back in storage for a bit. It's a five minute drive.

There are a couple things on the Ospray we're puzzled by in the "what's this for" sense. Maybe someone out there knows.

This little piece of wood has been affixed to the centerboard trunk between the cam cleats. No idea what it does it did or might do.



The other thing are a group of fixtures forward of the mast hole (that we need to widen since our new mast won't fit)

I have documentation on how to rig, etc, but I don't see any mention of these things. I'm guessing maybe (??) some kind of small anchor holder?



(Husband's expression here is an odd mix of concern and confusion thought I don't know why. I had taken this picture to capture the "clean" side vs the "not cleaned" side -- when it's small they both look really shiny and clean (they aren't), but now it's a "WTF is this?" picture.)

Meanwhile, the Tartan's onboard manual bilge pump was kaput, so we bought a new Guzzler. We've also tried 2 of the West Marine manual pumps, the kind that look like old school tire pumps, only with corrugated plastic hose. No matter what we do, about half of what we pump squirts from where the hose goes into the pump, so husband came up with a temp solution using the Guzzler, at least until we figure out where the current manual bilge pump hoses are going.

He tacked the Guzzler to a board so one can brace it with foot or hand, and we bought a sump pump hose (24' for 10 bucks, which is a lot less than the white hose that looks just like it, but is on a roll). We had to get an adapter to bring the size down from 1 1/2" to 1 1/4" and then the hose didn't quite fit.

We (independently) came up with the idea of heating the hose with my hair dryer until it could be manipulated over the barb end. Husband did stand there for about two minutes wondering why the dryer wasn't heating until he realized you have to push the "hot" button. Guess who doesn't use a hair dryer.

That worked. So we ended up with this:



The "in" hose isn't attached yet.

I'm still not quite sure why we don't just put the pump in permanently but in the short term, I think this will do a better job than the crappy pumps we got from the store. Just in time for rain, too, falling through gasketless lockers... Whee!
__________________
"Tigress"
1964 Tartan 27

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It may be a hole in the water, but it's mine.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #154  
Old 08-22-2010
CalebD's Avatar
Tartan 27' owner
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,554
Thanks: 4
Thanked 87 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 7
CalebD will become famous soon enough
I'd be with you that those fittings forward and stbd. of the mast on your OsprAy are for holding down a smallish Danforth style anchor or lunch hook.

Regards the Tartan and bilge pumps here is an idea: If you have a through hull depth or speedometer sending unit they can be removed and will allow any water to leak out of the hull which would limit the amount of flooding you endure in your cabin. Of course this idea does not work so well when your boat is actually in the water so good for you for replacing the manual bilge pump. I get to use the leaky WM type of pump you described over the winter to drain out the deep part of our bilge as our boats on board manual pump is as old as the boat (1967) and barely functional, at best.
For electronic bilge pumps I'd suggest you look at the centrifugal Rule bilge pumps, either automatic (w/float switch) or not. They are about 1/5 the price of the stupid Jabsco diaphragm pumps ($250) that seem to malfunction when you look at them. For the price of one Jabsco diaphragm pump i can buy 5 Rule pumps and just replace them as they fail. So far 2 years of success with a non-automatic Rule pump (800 gph or so) jammed down into the lowest sump in the bilge near the center board trunk near the engine. I like the non-automatic pump because I like to know when water is getting in and I don't like automatic pumps draining my batteries. If we did not visit our boat nearly every week it might be different and the automatic pump might be used instead. It has also been a pretty dry summer till now. Automatic bilge pumps have a way of re-cycling that will drain a battery bank pretty fast.
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Everybody has one:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #155  
Old 08-23-2010
daydreamer92's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 143
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
daydreamer92 is on a distinguished road
Pump up the jam

Thanks for the advice on the pumps. I've been wondering what to do about that. Right now, the boat will take on some water just sitting on the stands -- I'm pretty sure some/a lot come in through the icebox since it has no gasket or door. I've yet to come back to the boat in any weather and NOT find water in the bilge, so I know its' getting in. Also, at the moment we do have a bunch of little holes where the teak grab rails were, so that'll let something dribble in.

We also don't have any sort of battery in the boat, so unless the pump is automatic in the it-has-its-own-battery sense, it's not going to run anything down.

Speaking of bilge pumps, the manual pump (the installed one, not the "bike" bumps) has a clearly defined "in" hose, and an outhose that goes to the same scupper as the deck one. That all makes perfect sense. Little air vent loop on the way out and all.

But if you can imagine an upside down U, with the right side being the way out of the boat, there is a T fitting about halfway "out" that a hose is connected to. The other end of the hose appears to go down into the bilge.

We couldn't figure that one out. Wouldn't this mean that some of the water you're pumping out hang a right at the T and end up back in the bilge?

I'll have to snap a picture next time.
__________________
"Tigress"
1964 Tartan 27

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It may be a hole in the water, but it's mine.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #156  
Old 08-25-2010
daydreamer92's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 143
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
daydreamer92 is on a distinguished road
Tiller, redux

At least it's a different tiller.

Rainy, rainy day, so grabbed the Ospray's tiller to sand down and prep for some stain and what not.

It's heavier and more substantial than the Tartan's tiller for some reason, and I don't think it's made out of ash.

It had moss growing on it when I got it.

Here's it before:



And after sanding through 220 grit and a Soft Scrub bleaching.



Sunday we also shop-vac'd a bit more inside the cuddy cabin. I think "cuddy" means "there's no way a human can fit in here". Put the cockpit floorboards (sole boards?) back in to hide the worn paint, deciding we could wait to tackle that Some Other Time. At the very front of the cuddy, there's a little shelf where the mast had rested and vomited much of the flotation styrofoam bits out onto said shelf. Shop Vac took care of that so hopefully boat is styrofoam free. As we all know, those peanuts multiply.

I think, if it's not raining tomorrow, we'll go to the yard and relieve the Tartan of a bounty of bilge water. I'm wondering how hard it would be to take the head off since I can't really ever paint in there with it in the way.
__________________
"Tigress"
1964 Tartan 27

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It may be a hole in the water, but it's mine.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #157  
Old 08-26-2010
daydreamer92's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 143
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
daydreamer92 is on a distinguished road
Big boat work

Went to the yard today to work on the "big boat". We tried out husband's Guzzler pump set up, worked great to flush out the bilge. Other than the bilge and the cabin sole, most of the boat seems drier than I've seen it ever, which is great after a week of mostly rain. Even the icebox was dry, which is a first.

I thought I saw a tiny drip of water out of the repaired rudder heel, so I think he might have to look at that again just to make sure it's sealed up right.

Inside, we didn't do a lot we hadn't done before:

More scraping. A drier boat means that more paint is happy to fall off and fall of it did. Since we have a whole six or seven or eight or whatever months to work on this girl now, I dispatched husband to take out some things off the hull that we hadn't before, shelving support mostly.

And since I hate the original sink and counter, we're starting to dissemble that.

After a lot of paint and what not, I used BucketMax to vacuum up a lot of chips. I feel like my arms have been soaking in fiberglass though, not sure why. Maybe particles in the air from the multitool chewing through tabbing. Just vague left over itchy feeling.

I'd post a picture but nothing looks any different to anybody who wasn't there. My current (short/immediate version) To Do list looks like this:

1) finish removing shelves/supports/sink
2) remove head
3) remove top of quarter and V berths for access to things we need access to

(these are all things that will help us in the overall clean/paint more easily)

4) scrape scrape scrape
5) start engine removal process

If we get totally tired of being IN the boat, we can go outside and prep the bottom for eventual paint.

I'm loving the shorter drive. It really helps!
__________________
"Tigress"
1964 Tartan 27

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It may be a hole in the water, but it's mine.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #158  
Old 08-27-2010
CalebD's Avatar
Tartan 27' owner
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,554
Thanks: 4
Thanked 87 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 7
CalebD will become famous soon enough
Comments from a fellow Tartan 27' owner.

The ice box can be a PITA for water entry if the hull is not stored level. We had problems with this last winter when our hull was canted up at the stern which allowed the water to pile up and puddle into the cabin (away from the drain hole in the ice box). Duct taping the outside access hatch in the cockpit temporarily can help keep some moisture out. Ultimately though, removing the ice box is probably a good idea as I'm sure you have coolers etc.

I am curious how you make out with removing the shelves in the main salon of the cabin. I haven't quite figured out how they are hung onto the hull and we have a small soft deck spot on the Stbd side near the aft end of the Dog House or cabin top that I would like to try to repair from underneath. I think I have a lifeline stanchion there that must have leaked into the plywood/balsa core.

My alcohol stove and sink could stand to be replaced too. Hopefully this will be easy to do.

If your 'head' is original it should be a Wilcox-Crittendon (WC) unit which is superior to any cheap Jabsco replacement model. I believe that I have the original WC (water closet?) head on my T27 as it still functions after 8 years of owning the boat and perhaps 43 years in total lifetime. It might be worth investigating to see if you can still find any 'W/C' branding on it. If so you might consider just getting the repair or service kit for it: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|806|315199|315203&id=223879
The cheaper Jabsco heads have a reputation for failing after only a few or no years.
While you are at this you might want to look at the holding tank itself (should be under the port seat cover (lazarette?) in the cockpit). If the sniff test fails it might be worth replacing that too; we did about 7 years ago. The hoses themselves can also absorb (believe it or not) stink so they could be candidates for replacing as well. The test for the hoses involves using a damp rag that you wipe on the hose and then sniff the rag for nastyness.
I'm pretty sure you can figure out how to remove the head (bolts around the base) and hoses (hose clamps) etc. as you seem pretty capable. Having some bleach around while you do this may help if there is any nasty liquid still in the mechanism (I'll bet you had this figured out as well).

Engine removal process.
I've never removed the A4 from our boat but I have read a lot at the Moyer Marine forums and done some carb and water pump work on ours. One bit of advice that I read and used makes a lot of sense: take a lot of pictures of how everything is set up before you start taking it apart. Another tip is to remove as much of the adjunct parts (carb, water pump, manifold, starter motor, alternator, flywheel and cover) before trying to hoist this 300+ # engine out of your boat. I don't know how much weight taking all this stuff off your engine amounts to but it adds up to something fairly significant - like I said, I haven't had to remove my A4 from my boat, yet.
I've referred you to the MMI forums before so I won't belabor the point but there is a guy up in ME who is trying to overhaul his engine as well that has been given a boat load of good advice (over a few months) about the process. It is long winded but worth skimming through for some details that you may encounter with your own engine: Atomic Four Rebuild?? - Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community
Everything regarding the engine is important: the electrical wiring, the nuts and bolts that hold each component to the block, the cooling water hoses, engine alignment and supports/engine mounts, fuel delivery system, ignition and the lubricating oil. I forgot the exhaust system as well as battery power. If one component is not right it can make for an unhappy day so it is best to proceed slowly and carefully.

I enjoy your your posts so keep 'em coming. Please.
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Everybody has one:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #159  
Old 08-27-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
SwedeBoy is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by daydreamer92 View Post
Speaking of bilge pumps, the manual pump (the installed one, not the "bike" bumps) has a clearly defined "in" hose, and an outhose that goes to the same scupper as the deck one. That all makes perfect sense. Little air vent loop on the way out and all.

But if you can imagine an upside down U, with the right side being the way out of the boat, there is a T fitting about halfway "out" that a hose is connected to. The other end of the hose appears to go down into the bilge.

We couldn't figure that one out. Wouldn't this mean that some of the water you're pumping out hang a right at the T and end up back in the bilge?
I'll have to snap a picture next time.
It could be that the second hose going back down int the bilge is meant for a connection to an automated and/or battery powered pump and the T(or Y) connector is simply to let them expel their water through the same through-hull into the ocean/lake/what have you. Just a theory I had.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #160  
Old 08-27-2010
daydreamer92's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 143
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
daydreamer92 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalebD View Post
Comments from a fellow Tartan 27' owner.

The ice box can be a PITA for water entry if the hull is not stored level. We had problems with this last winter when our hull was canted up at the stern which allowed the water to pile up and puddle into the cabin (away from the drain hole in the ice box). Duct taping the outside access hatch in the cockpit temporarily can help keep some moisture out. Ultimately though, removing the ice box is probably a good idea as I'm sure you have coolers etc.
I've waffled back and forth on whether I want it out or in. And you're right, now that the boat is tipped further back (though not quite enough for the water in deck to drain out of holes in the taffrail), the water isn't puddling inside the fridge and coming out inside like it did when the boat was tipped forward like at the other yard.

That said, I sort of *like* the icebox idea and with the door on it, I think it looks spiffy. If we can insulate it properly and seal the cockpit lid well with a proper gasket (the current is totally shot), maybe it'll work. Else we'll take it out like everybody else does.

Quote:
I am curious how you make out with removing the shelves in the main salon of the cabin. I haven't quite figured out how they are hung onto the hull...
The ones in the main cabin, we just unscrewed from the supports and they came out. The ones in the Vberth were tabbed in from underneath (and painted white), but the nice varnished shelves were just screwed in.


Quote:
My alcohol stove and sink could stand to be replaced too. Hopefully this will be easy to do.
No stove here, just a "raised" sink and a "low" counter. It's really ugly and the counter seems too low to be comfortable to use.


Quote:
If your 'head' is original it should be a Wilcox-Crittendon (WC) unit which is superior to any cheap Jabsco replacement model.
Indeed the original seems to have been a W-C since that's what the "how to use the head" plaque on the bulkhead references. That original head has been replaced with a Raritan that doesn't look to have ever been used. The hoses and "poop bag" style holding tank also appear new, though the head and hoses are quite grimy like the rest of the interior.

Truly, from the looks of many things, including the previous interior paint job, the hoses, wiring, some deck hardware, compass, lewmar hatches and small opening ports, etc -- I am pretty sure the PO was investing some significant cash in updating Tigress before he became ill. It likely deteriorated once he was too sick to continue and passed away. I think rainwater intrusion and being flooded for while destroyed the inside paint job (and the engine) and left dried mold and a lot of grime everywhere. If it hadn't flooded, it would have looked in much better shape.

The only reason I want to take out the head is because it will facilitate cleaning it and the head... room?... area? locker? -- the place the head is in.

Quote:
Engine removal process...

I've referred you to the MMI forums before so I won't belabor the point but there is a guy up in ME who is trying to overhaul his engine as well that has been given a boat load of good advice (over a few months) about the process. It is long winded but worth skimming through for some details that you may encounter with your own engine: Atomic Four Rebuild?? - Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community
I've read the MM forums and also have his A4 book as well. We need to take the engine out to hopefully repair it and put it back in, as well as to access Stuff Behind the Engine. Crane time for this yard seems to be about $125/hr so we'll ask 'em to pull it out when it's ready and then see if we can't take it all apart and put it back together so it's chugging along again. I don't have any particular desire to replace it entirely unless I have to.

I appreciate your contributions to this thread too -- it's always good to hear from another active T27 owner!
__________________
"Tigress"
1964 Tartan 27

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It may be a hole in the water, but it's mine.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Joys and Pitfalls of Buying a New Boat - Part 1 Lin & Larry Pardey Buying a Boat Articles 25 08-02-2014 08:44 PM
Production blue water boats JakeLevi Boat Review and Purchase Forum 73 07-31-2009 10:07 PM
Superfluous Sextant? akoutdoors1 Seamanship & Navigation 4 08-10-2006 10:51 AM
Winter Storage Issues Joy Smith Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-26-2004 08:00 PM
The Balance of Hull and Sails Steve Colgate Seamanship Articles 0 05-25-2000 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:29 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.