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  #21  
Old 03-29-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
RumPirate -
I rather think you are missing the point. I was not wondering about the cost of one individual's efforts. Stardust says she had the United States Coast Guard, the United States embassy, the French and Dutch embassies, the Puerto Rican Coast guard, the Maritime Mobile Network, and private vessels all actively searching for one sailor who hadn't bothered to check in with his family. Add in all the people who were involved in radio nets that Stardust probably doesn't even know about, and you are into hundreds of people who devoted at least a tiny portion of their day to the situation. Heck, by the time the message filters down to the ranks there are probably a hundred people just in the USCG alone that were at least briefly involved.
Apparently in your world people's time is free. How nice for you.
I can see your point, but totally dissagree. I will give you my opinions why.

Many of those people participated of their own free will. I did , as did the other mods, as did the private yachts, etc. Regarding the military and embassy functions (govt employees), I pay a freaking large amount of money every year (I own my own company) so that this great country can have medicare, medicaid, welfare, Lots of high paid senators and reps that have lots of expensive meetings, then meetings to set meetings, multi-million dollars worth of bombs falling in foreign coutries who hate us being there anyways, men on the moon, men on the space station, a trillion dollars for banks that turn around and charge me 30% on my free money from the govt, and a trillino dollar health system which will cost me even more money than my current one. Now, I am not here to debate the validity of the orgainzations, nor am I here to debate teh necessity of the other trillions that go out the front door, but by God there is one service that I do actually get some very direct comfort out of (and have a lot of respect for) and that is our US Coast Guard, and the fact that if I, or any other sailor, has a problem, I know they got my back. Now the guys that get rescued that go to sea without any training or preparation, I think they should pay their own way after getting rescued. However, for the guys that do it right, and life just got in the way, heck - I am glad to know there are people out there watching out for me and them. I would expect no less from any other sailor. Because if we are not willing to stop and do that, for free, then what good are we as a country, a military branch, a government agency, or an individual yachty?? Nah, I'm there for you guys. I do this for free (Sailnet) and Mainsheet for free. I do it to help out and give a LOT of my time for it. Why? Because I am passionate about sailing and willing to lend a hand. Most of the rest of the other sailors are too. And don't you know that if a sailor goes missing in Far Star's harbor, he will be right there in the thick of the rescue, giving his time, knowing that others did the same for him. It is a big circle.

My opinions.

Brian
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Last edited by Cruisingdad; 03-29-2010 at 09:59 AM.
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  #22  
Old 03-29-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
One of the reasons we don't tell any non-cruisers when we are going to be anywhere. We prevent a lot of panicked searches that way. We also refuse to have a strict comm schedule for the same reason.
Cruisers already understand "boat time" so they don't worry about it if we don't show up for a month or two.
Different strokes.
The above is my original post on this thread. Commentary seems to have gone rather far afield from this. I have in no way criticized those who help in search and rescue efforts. My sole idea was to show that scheduled communications can result in large amounts of money and time being expended for no good reason. That blame is placed solely upon the shoulders of those sailors who cause the problem. In addition to the expenditures it helps to create a "boy who cried wolf" syndrome. This can result in less effort being given for those who really need it.
Not very seamanlike.
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  #23  
Old 03-29-2010
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Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
I wonder how much all that cost.

This is doubtless a callous, coldhearted, politically incorrect statement, but ---
there are a few of us sailors out there who think that if we're dumb enough to go to sea by ourselves in small boats we have no right to expect the rest of the world to come to a screeching halt and spend a gazillion dollars trying to rescue us. Adventures of that sort should reward self-reliance.

Food for thought.
It was this post I was responding to, not the other. I understand that may not have been what you meant, but it was how I read it.

Hey no worries though.

Brian
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  #24  
Old 03-29-2010
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It seems to me that this all points to the need for a very clear communication process and schedule between the sailor and his/her loved-ones. That process can be just about anything as long as everyone knows it and plays by its rules.

This thread has got me thinking about that for sure.
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Old 03-31-2010
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Well this has turned into quite the debate!

You all make very good points, but I think it comes down to what Smackdaddy was saying, "this points to a need for a very clear communication process and schedule between the sailor and his/her loved-ones. That process can be just about anything as long as everyone knows it and plays by its rules."

This has proved to be a very important learning experience for everyone. As I have explained to my dad, this CANNOT happen again unless you are under real duress, precisely to avoid the "boy who cried wolf" situation. It does consume time and money and that should be respected. However, no one put a gun to anyones head to help with the search.

FS MIKE: In response to your post about solo sailors not having the right to expect the rest of the world to come to your rescue. The point is actually the reverse. If you are "dumb enough" to go to sea by yourselves in small boats you have no right to expect that your families will not worry and spend a gazillion dollars trying to rescue you. It is ridiculous to expect that simply because you have asked or told your family not to worry, that they won't. I know if my dad thought I was missing he would go to the ends of the earth to make sure I was safe. These communication schedules are put into place to save YOUR life. If this were one of your family members or friends; I fear you would feel quite differently. You can be sure that if you are in need of help near the New Orleans area I will be out there helping look for you!

I think we all have an immense amount of respect for the Coast Guard and all of the other agencies dedicated to protecting our well being. There is a kindness and generosity of spirit in the sailing community that is hard to come by in everyday life here on land. It is those who selflessly lend their time, money and hard work to those in need that make this world a better place. Cruisingdad - A special note of thanks; you are the perfect example of how one person can make a big difference!

Smackdaddy: A note on SPOT. We have had very good luck with it. Love that it only takes a few minutes to send a message and no computer/e-mail/wifi needed. I'll have to ask my dad if he has any complaints about it.

Safe travels,
Christina
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Cool - thanks for coming back and posting your thoughts on it star. It's great to have perspective from someone who's just been through a real scenario with it.

At the end of the day, I think we're all just very happy your dad is safe. And we're trying to think through how we'll use these technologies in the future.

BTW - is he carrying an EPIRB too? Or just using SPOT? That's another interesting aspect to this as far as I'm concerned. In other words, I'm wondering if SPOT could supplant EPIRBs as an emergency signaling device? Or if that adds too many loops to getting help in an emergency?
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  #27  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stardust0406 View Post
.. If this were one of your family members or friends; I fear you would feel quite differently.
I think this is true for most people but some of us have a good idea of how we would feel. To make a very long and somewhat interesting story very short I and two other guys found ourselves stranded in the bush hundreds of kilometers from home (but within 100k of a reserve) on a winter road (in the summer), with a vehicle that is hard to describe. Think of a car with most of the body cut off, only a bit of the roof left and a broken axle.

One of the other guys was not handling the situation well. We should have lied to him about our situation...actually we did a bit but he was still finding it difficult to hold it together. After about 10hrs and just before nightfall rescue arrived but only for one of us.

As he faded into the distance our situation improved. We settled in the for night knowing that tomorrow we would self rescue if no further help came along. Since we had only seen one other vehicle we figured one a day was the most one could hope for.

The guy that was with us got back to town and tried to mount a rescue mission but when he went to my Dad for help he found his plans and himself frustrated. Apparently when informed we were stuck in the bush over a 100k from anywhere with no camping equipment, no food, and no warm clothes (though it was summer) the only question asked was if we were injured.

Our new buddy said no and suggested calling the RCMP. The response was a simple no need for that, thank you very much for letting him know and that there was nothing to worry about.

Our new buddy told us that he was shocked but went back to his place fretting about us in the bush and thinking my Dad was nuts or did not understand the situation.

Thing is we tend to self rescue and that is understood. I can follow the predetermined and agreed to steps when it comes to my Dad I cannot, would not for other family members (or my Dad if I wasn't sure what he wanted me to do).

Which is why I will gladly help to find someone who when found just says "Doh I should'a called."

To me that just fine and a good outcome.

As a taxpayer I have no problem with the minor expenses my government incurs addressing such issues, though I do agree with insurance being required for travel in certain areas at certain times.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I'm wondering if SPOT could supplant EPIRBs as an emergency signaling device? Or if that adds too many loops to getting help in an emergency?
I think of SPOT as adding to the many emergency signaling devices we already have which include:


Flags
Sound devices
Strobe and other lights
Flares
VHF
Sat Phone (text, email, voice)
Alert from Family if we fail to report in

Which seems to me to be pretty good compared to options in the past.
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