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Beating into 12-14' seas

3K views 17 replies 10 participants last post by  dabnis 
#1 ·
Does anyone here have experience doing upwind (close-hauled) legs into 12-14' swell? We are planning a trip down the coast next week and the predictions have been for 10-12' seas. I don't expect a difficult sail down but the return will be about a 20 mile upwind beat to return to SF. I know this is not a great distance but we are double-handing and I want to be sure that we are not going to run into too much difficulty returning.

The boat is a 41' C&C offshore designed hull; and I'm not concerned about the boat being able to handle the conditions, just need tactics to help make the trip safe/comfortable for The Admiral...
 
#3 ·
This time of year you can get pretty big seas, today running about 17 feet off SF: Northern California NOAA/CDIP Buoy Data. Coming back from Half Moon Bay
will be uphill and against the current, not good sailing conditions, probably have to motor most or all the way, not a fun trip in my opinion. Suggest you stay well off shore and enter the ship channel at the light station. Don't even think of taking the inshore "channel" off the SF beach. Marine forecast :
Marine Forecast : Weather Underground My apologies if you already know all of this.

Dabnis
 
#4 ·
Yes; I'm aware of the conditions, but thanks for posting this. We are expecting lighter conditions after this next storm passes through; and we won't go if it's worse than predicted (will be checking buoy data before we set out).

I was hoping to get more experience sailing in heavier conditions (we do fine in 35kts on SF Bay); but ocean conditions are different and of course we don't want too much and I want to keep it safe. Since it's an upwind sail coming back it will be more difficult on the return; and we won't have a totally accurate picture of the swell and wind until the day before we return. I have a couple of days we can wait to sail back so hopefully we will find a better day if it's terribly rough on Thursday.
 
#6 ·
TQA's point is very good... in many cases the period is far more important than the height. Four foot waves with a three-foot wavelength is going to be far worse than 14' waves with a 20' wavelength.

Beating into short period waves is a lot harder than doing so into the same wave height with a longer period. If the wavelength is less than the height... expect a nasty trip.
 
#7 ·
Keelhaulin,

My experience was 10 years in and outside the gate in a Coronado 25. Your boat is much, much bigger and stronger. No matter what size, going uphill out there can be like a non-stop train wreck with the wind waves on top of a big short term swell, both capping if the wind is up. Things start to be a little better after about the first or middle of June, but then the fog starts. Looks like you have it covered, you will get the experience you want, fortunately in a nice big strong boat. Hope you have a good trip back.

Dabnis
 
#8 ·
Thanks; seems like the predictions have worsened for Monday/Tuesday, and without knowing what the forecast will be on Friday will have us waiting until at least Monday to determine if we can go. I was hoping for 8-10' when we sail out but right now the prediction is for 12-14' on Monday. It's a bit better for Tuesday at 10-12' but there is an additional south swell of 3' predicted also; so it could be 13-15' with stacked swells. Everything is predicted for short wave periods (13-15 seconds); also not good.

Seems like we either get no wind offshore (summer), fog(spring, summer, fall), or heavy wind and seas (late fall through spring). It makes for difficult planning offshore sailing trips...
 
#9 ·
Right, seems like we have had an extension of heavy winter weather. We have been waiting for it to lay down some before going crabing out of Fort Bragg. Don't know how the Salmon opener was out of SF this weekend for the "puker" fleet? Glad to see you are keeping a good eye on it before jumping in.

Dabnis
 
#10 ·
You might try heading out and sailing into it for a few miles first before turning and running with it just to make sure that you are comfortable doing it.

Depending on the boat and the wave period, beating into seas of that size can be anything from hard driving to survival sailing where you are not making any progress. If the period is long and you have a boat well suited to the conditions, just power her up and you will get there. It will definitely put some extra stress on the people and gear so you need to be prepared. However, if the period of the waves is short, your boat can start "falling off" the waves which makes it extremely hard to cover any ground. This results in extreme pitching and the boat loosing most of its speed each time it comes down into the trough. The key in these conditions if you want to make any progress is to accept that you can't point very high and fall off a little to get your boatspeed up.

One of my favorite days on the water ever was a day with 10-12' waves with a very short period. We only went out for 2 hours or so and couldn't point above probably 60 degrees. When we went to tack, we discovered that the boat wouldn't do it, we could never get head to wind so we used the engine at WOT since we didn't want to gybe. There was also a race going on at the same time and some of the multihulls would launch off the top of a wave and move sideways 10-15' while in the air before hitting the next wave. While the wave height was not that great on these seas, the reason that it was so tough was the period.
 
#11 ·
Like people have said, the period is often more important than the height. We spent a day beating to Bermuda, falling off the top of every other wave: not fun. (Though we won our division...) Also, if you're dealing with big rollers, that's one thing. If they're cresting, that's something else. It might be a good idea to err on the side of caution, reefing well down at the outset, especially since you're short-handed. It's always easier to shake out a reef if you need more power to punch through than it is to put one in once you've started to really bounce around. Your boat sounds big & heavy enough to manage OK, but YOU may get tired. If thngs start to get too crazy, shift to a little more comfortable heading. Even if it takes you longer, you'll be able to enjoy the trip instead of beating yourselves to two tired pulps.
 
#12 · (Edited)
man.... I have done this and it is NOT pretty if the interval is close...

We did 12' to 15' swells with almost NO interval all the way from Half Moon bay to the gate and I chummed the WHOLE way. And I don't *usually get seasick... honestly it was really really awful. and when we got to the new marina the insult to injury was that I had to clean the port side off...

If the swells will be that big and close you will prolly be under motor most of the way and hating life.

I hate to sound so negative, but honestly the only time I felt this bad was in 25' to 30' seas off the Atlantic coast of Panama... when I had the flu...

There is a reason the north route up the coast is called 'The Bash'...
 
#13 ·
Yes; this is what I was concerned with... I figured that if the swell was up above 10' it could be pretty hairy sailing into it. Usually when we get out to Mile Rock and if the swell is up we turn and run back in; spend the rest of the day in SF Bay. We had one day when we got out the gate and near the channel and the swell was stacking up really tall like 18' with capping waves in view further out. Needless to say we turned down and motor sailed back in with light wind on our quarter.

Today's forecast has the swell prediction for Tuesday down to 8-10'; and Friday at 9-11'. I hope it either stays as predicted or subsides a bit more; but if it looks worse or the buoy data shows worse (or it looks bad at the bar) on Tuesday we will bag the trip.

Thanks for the helpful posts guys & gal... Anyone want to crew for the trip back to SF? :D:D
 
#15 ·
16-20's. Boat didn't point that high ( roller main since discarded). Got a good case of the queasies and it was a very wet ride. Aside from that, what's to tell.
 
#16 ·
My most vivid experiences in those kind of conditions were over the continental shelf in the Atlantic off Georgia. Here the waves can pile up very steeply (15- 20 feet tall) and be very closely spaced as well.

The one thing that surprised me besides how hard it was to avoid seasickness was the difference in windspeed in the troughs vs at the crests. Even though it was gusting well into the 30 knot range and sometimes well over that, in the troughs it felt like there was almost no wind.

As a result, the boat would slow nearly to a stop as it was climbing each wave, seemingly get thrown back against its rudder, would then take a knock down at the crest, pitch bow down and either slide on its topsides or roar down the back of the wave.

Most of this was in a boat of a similar shape and vintage to your boat, if you hit the wave right it was not too bad, the Vee'd bow sections hitting comparatively more gently than you would expect. The problem came if you lost too much speed and landed on your topsides, or if you had too much speed, launched the boat clean out of the back of the wave, missing the back of the wave and landing squarely in the trough. That was just plain scary and painful.

Jeff
 
#17 ·
Looking at the forecasts brings me back towards canceling the trip. The wind/wave for Tuesday is back to 9-12' with SCA for the SF Bar; and Friday is 15-25 kt winds swell 9'-11'NW with 3' SW and 3-5' wind waves. That's a mess of heavy, confused seas with heavy wind in addition. I don't think it will be long period swell and returning in through SF Bar (and exiting HMB) could be treacherous. Today's highest -average- wave height in the SF channel was 19.5' (likely breaking waves) during max ebb with a predicted wave height of 15'.

Withot a huge change in the forecast by AM I think we are going to stay inside SF Bay this week...
 
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