Liferafts! VERY Important Thread for all Cruisers - Page 14 - SailNet Community

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  #131  
Old 04-26-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_L View Post
One hung,
Well put. Not sure what it is about Sailnet that there seems to be more importance put on we-are-in-the-club-and-all-in-agreement, than on getting the facts right. All boards suffer from this at times, but SN seems to lead when it comes to sailing boards I visit. Somehow you are called out as a cynic, while posting floating balloons is cheered as a liferaft alternative. Weird.

Your last comment about prep and training is certainly true. And in a small way, this thread probably added to a few peoples prep, training and understanding.

Paul L
Paul,

If you do not like the tone of the board, or the material, then add to it. Start a thread of your own. Discuss some things that you have found while cruising. Provide information on places to go or see. Cruising with children. Racing. Gear and Maint. Start some stuff. Instead, you have been here since 2004 and have made a whopping 137 posts. How many of those have even been threads of your own?

I have no problem with people sitting on the sidelines. I just get irritated when others take some level of interst and initiative, then get picked apart by a couple of members who have not made any initative, and then have to listen to how bad a board is!?? My goodness, don't you realize that a board is made up of its members and is only as good as its contribiutors? When you complain about how bad a board is, you complain about yourself.

Brian
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  #132  
Old 04-26-2010
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And incidentally, the ballons thing was an attempt at humor by John. It was not to be taken seriously.

Brian
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  #133  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Paul,

If you do not like the tone of the board, or the material, then add to it. Start a thread of your own. Discuss some things that you have found while cruising. Provide information on places to go or see. Cruising with children. Racing. Gear and Maint. Start some stuff. Instead, you have been here since 2004 and have made a whopping 137 posts. How many of those have even been threads of your own?

I have no problem with people sitting on the sidelines. I just get irritated when others take some level of interst and initiative, then get picked apart by a couple of members who have not made any initative, and then have to listen to how bad a board is!?? My goodness, don't you realize that a board is made up of its members and is only as good as its contribiutors? When you complain about how bad a board is, you complain about yourself.

Brian
Brian,
Of course it was obvious that the balloons were humor. The point was that a correction of a major false statement in the first post was treated more like an attack on the special ones as opposed to a correction of false and misleading information on an important topic. As far as other contributions are concerned, I post here from time to time. Quantity of postings is not generally a good measure of quality.

Paul L
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  #134  
Old 04-26-2010
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Brian (Cruisingdad) , before this thread turns sour (and trying to prevent it) I would like to say something:

I agree with you about Wunhunglo tone. It is not what is said, but the way it is said. I also think that, taking away the tone,much of what he has said is basically correct. Perhaps you should have intervened more (and sooner) in your own thread, relativising what the main disagreement was, I mean that statement :" If your raft flips over, you are dead. You will not die immediately, but you are not flipping it back over."

I know that you have done it now, but why take so much time? I share the opinion of Smackdady in what concerns your gentle nature. You are one of the nicest and politest members around and I understand that you have felt angered with Wunhunglo tone. He is a new member, but one that has already contributed with some very informed and interesting posts, some on this thread. I am sure that if he knew you better, he would be more careful with the choice of words.

Back to the liferaft topic and the re-right stuff, a last contribuition, quoting Steve Callahan:

(Steve Callahan is a widely respected writer and editor with hundreds of articles to his credit for publications in the U.S. and abroad. He is currently serving as Editor at Large for Cruising World magazine. Callahan's already strong interest in safety at sea and survival was further focused after surviving for 76 days alone in a life raft in 1982, chronicled in his award winning bestseller, "Adrift, 76 Days Lost at Sea," one of the best survival tales ever written. A naval architect by training, he is president of S.P. Callahan & Associates, providing design, research and consulting services to the boat building and marine safety industries.)

"Now don't freak out if this thing capsizes. We can right it, and with some practice we can reright it without getting out."

I believe he is speaking of an Ocean liferaft type, like the ones that are ISAF approved.

The article was published on "Ocean Navigator" magazine, it is a good one and deserves to be read. I believe this guy really knows of what he is talking about .

The Life Raft: Don't Leave Your Ship Without It - EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm)

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 04-26-2010 at 03:24 PM.
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  #135  
Old 04-26-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_L View Post
Brian,
Of course it was obvious that the balloons were humor. The point was that a correction of a major false statement in the first post was treated more like an attack on the special ones as opposed to a correction of false and misleading information on an important topic. As far as other contributions are concerned, I post here from time to time. Quantity of postings is not generally a good measure of quality.

Paul L
If you are referring to the original post of this thread, calling it a "major false statement" is not really keeping in mind both the content and the *context* of the post.

Granted the original post contained some absolutes but, taken in context, they made a lot of sense.
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  #136  
Old 04-26-2010
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First post was interesting. Thanks.

I forget whether I read it online or in a book, but I remember a guy who tested his life raft and even though it was supposed to inflate right side up it didn't.

As far as being dead if your raft flips... I just read Adrift: Seventy Six Days Lost at Sea by Steven Callahan, and after that I think anything is possible if you're smart enough and have a strong enough will to survive.
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  #137  
Old 04-26-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_L View Post
Brian,
Of course it was obvious that the balloons were humor. The point was that a correction of a major false statement in the first post was treated more like an attack on the special ones as opposed to a correction of false and misleading information on an important topic. As far as other contributions are concerned, I post here from time to time. Quantity of postings is not generally a good measure of quality.

Paul L
Paul,

Since your previous note suggests you misunderstood my intent:

Quote:
Somehow you are called out as a cynic, while posting floating balloons is cheered as a liferaft alternative.
.

Let me reiterate: All helium balloon comments were in jest, pure and simple.



On some forums the default mode of communication is to antagonize. Proclaim a challenge, point out the flaws, belittle, insult the other guy, shove it in his face. A lot of folks gravitate to that and some even seem to get off on it. If that's the atmosphere you're used to and you prefer, Sailnet won't appeal to you.

For those who are infrequent visitors or new to Sailnet, we have our own forum culture and its hallmark is civility. There is plenty of joking around, pranks, and ribbing, too, but it tends toward the good natured sort. (Incidentally, we also have a habit here of hijacking threads once they've run their useful course and exhausted the subject. Hence the balloons. )

This was a thread where someone related an encounter with an empty liferaft at sea and an ensuing SAR operation, and offered his impressions for discussion. We may or may not agree with all the observations, but the ensuing discussion yielded a fair bit of instructive information and certainly got some folks thinking more about various aspects of liferafts and survivability than they might otherwise have. On balance, a good thing.
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  #138  
Old 04-26-2010
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Hi Paulo,

Perhaps I should have changed the first post sooner to something more acceptable. At the time I did not think it was that big of a deal. Also, please understand that I often do not have internet depending on where we are (and that is a good thing!!!).

I hold no grudeges here against anyone.

Brian
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  #139  
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3. We have taken what some consider an extreme position regarding life rafts (not to carry one), but it is in fact a supremely practical position and not a purist position. After a lot of study and evaluation, I honestly believe that carrying a life raft decreases the likelihood of saving a vessel and decreases crew safety.
This is from Evan S's site, Seamanship
So there is clearly a wide range of opinion on Liferafts even among those who have clearly studied the issue and have serious experience.

Paul L
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  #140  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackjenner View Post
If you are referring to the original post of this thread, calling it a "major false statement" is not really keeping in mind both the content and the *context* of the post.

Granted the original post contained some absolutes but, taken in context, they made a lot of sense.
Go back and read the #1 statement under this 'must be read by all cruisers' topic and see if you still think it is correct? I just can't see how anyone could have read the many posts here that clearly counter what was stated and still want to go back and say 'oh you missed the context, it is really a true statement, when a life raft flips, you are dead'. Even the original poster changed his stance on this instead of just digging in his heals - possibly an Internet miracle. What is the need to defend a false and misleading statement?

Paul L
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