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  #41  
Old 04-21-2010
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Well when I get around to buying one it will be a Givens..Then I don't have to worry about it..

Givens Buoy Life Rafts - Safety Equipment & Liferafts
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  #42  
Old 04-21-2010
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Originally Posted by remetau View Post
I donít agree with CDís comment that once a raft flips you will die, but he brings up good points much like Steve Callahan did. A life raft should never be upside down. If I am on a boat with 6 others that do not make it, and I am the last to step up into the life raft, even though it is an 8 person raft, I do not expect it to overturn. Am I wrong in this thinking? Maybe we should ask the person that was left in the water.
A life raft is full of design trade-offs, just like any other boat. You can't have the raft light enough so it can be handled by a short-handed crew in severe conditions, stable enough that it won't go over even after the mothership that is 10-20 times longer has already gone down in the conditions, cheap enough that a cruiser would actually buy it, small enough that it can be stored in launchable place........, and spec it to: "A life raft should never be upside down." It is certainly a desirable quality, but it isn't anywhere near an absolute. Think of the conditions these things are used in. Many have flipped just from the downwash from Helicopter blades.

Paul L
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  #43  
Old 04-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post

3) I would like to genuinely propose that everyone considering a liferaft also consider the more modern thought (or old sailor's thought, before you could even wish for a rescue) of a sailing tender that can double as a raft. I am becoming more and more convinced that you should take your rescue into your own hands and hope for a rescue along the way. A sailing dink can be righted in many conditions, and can be sailed to your destination. This might not work in a hurricane, but that probably is not what takes down most well founded vessels. And if a hurricane took down your mother vessel, I cannot imagine riding it out in some flip-easy liferaft where I can guarantee you its tortoising will cost you your life. At least with a sailing-tender that is 'unsinkable' you have the CHANCE to hold on until the weather permits righting it, crawling inside, and making your own decision on whether to bob along or start making for port. In a raft, assuming she stays ass down, you are just going to be sitting there and waiting and hoping you can stay alive until some lucky soul finds your unlucky soul. Hopefully you are still breathing.

4) I will probably make a fuss of this, more than I should, but I think that we as sailors need to challenge life raft companies to test their products in real life conditions. SOrry, I do not sail in a swimming pool. Drop her offshore in 6, 8, 10, 20+ foot seas and see how she resopnds. Drop her in 20, 30, 50, 90 kt winds and see whether she flips. I can tell you taht somebody makes a raft that will flip over! I saw it! And if by some chance it was an empty coffin, then shame on the raft makers who should have known better. Look for deep, wide, ballasts. Look for handholds on the bottom and a means of easy entry. I can tell you that in the little 4 foot seas we were in, climbing atop that raft should there have been handholds would have been arduous at best. 6 footer, 12 footers, 20 footers... I cannot imagine.

5) A extra EPIRB and flares should be considered for ocean crossings. That means for the mother vessel AND the raft. I have to conclude that a C130 flew close to that raft. A few flares or a spare EPIRB might have given them the fix they needed. If nothing else, keep your old flares in a ditch bag to be taken should you have to abandon ship and choose to step up into your raft.

6) DO NOT LEAVE YOUR MAIN VESSEL! Good lord known that has been harped on a thousand times, but I will say it again. Assuming the vessel did not sink, and should I have found wreckage, my entire action plan would have changed. And I gotta tell you, it would have been a lot easier to see the mother vessel from the sky than that little raft. As said a thousand times, step up into your life raft, not down.

There are probably a lot of other things to say, but I am tired and will see if we can pick it up tomorrow. Thank you for reading the above. I truly hope it was a waste of your time. If not, I hope you keep in mind some of our findings.

All the best,

Brian
Portland Pudgy multifunction dinghy -- the fun boat that could save your life!

And thanks for posting the story CD, even though there were nits picked about what you wrote. Sometimes, no matter what you write, it will happen. Thanks for posting it anyway.
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Last edited by blackjenner; 04-21-2010 at 05:49 PM.
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  #44  
Old 04-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_L View Post
A life raft is full of design trade-offs, just like any other boat. You can't have the raft light enough so it can be handled by a short-handed crew in severe conditions, stable enough that it won't go over even after the mothership that is 10-20 times longer has already gone down in the conditions, cheap enough that a cruiser would actually buy it, small enough that it can be stored in launchable place........, and spec it to: "A life raft should never be upside down." It is certainly a desirable quality, but it isn't anywhere near an absolute. Think of the conditions these things are used in. Many have flipped just from the downwash from Helicopter blades.

Paul L
If a raft can't handle those conditions, then why buy it? I just think that if you have a raft on board, and for the premium that you pay for it, it should freakiní work! I shouldn't need 6 people to fill a 6 person raft for ballast since I may have a 6 person boat currently being crewed by 2! A life raft should have the ability to stay upright in disastrous conditions no matter how many people are left aboard. If it can't do that, then why the heck bother with it?
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  #45  
Old 04-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_L View Post
A life raft is full of design trade-offs, just like any other boat. You can't have the raft light enough so it can be handled by a short-handed crew in severe conditions, stable enough that it won't go over even after the mothership that is 10-20 times longer has already gone down in the conditions, cheap enough that a cruiser would actually buy it, small enough that it can be stored in launchable place........, and spec it to: "A life raft should never be upside down." It is certainly a desirable quality, but it isn't anywhere near an absolute. Think of the conditions these things are used in. Many have flipped just from the downwash from Helicopter blades.

Paul L
For what its worth the Winslow Superlite meets or exceeds all of your requirements and even my 104# wife is able to handle the 4-man valise pack. See http://www.winslowliferaft.com/downl...ftspecs/16.pdf ).
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  #46  
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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
For what its worth the Winslow Superlite meets or exceeds all of your requirements and even my 104# wife is able to handle the 4-man valise pack. See http://www.winslowliferaft.com/downl...ftspecs/16.pdf ).
It would meet my needs, but it doesn't meet remetau's requirements, as it also has a righting ladder.

Paul L
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  #47  
Old 04-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
Well when I get around to buying one it will be a Givens..Then I don't have to worry about it..

Givens Buoy Life Rafts - Safety Equipment & Liferafts
I ended up buying a Givens, it had more ballast than other brands and is selfrighting at deployment. Was it the right choice? Who knows, until you deploy and spend some time in the raft, and who actually wants to go through that to find out? When it is time to repack, I am planning to deploy it, and give the family some practice... Of course this will only be done after plenty of Goombay Smash to keep things real...
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  #48  
Old 04-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_L View Post
So why do you mark the post with a very important caution icon, title it like it is some authoritative document that 'all cruisers' should read and end it with the stamp of I'm a 'moderator'. The #1 item on your list is false and I just felt like calling it out. Enough said.

Paul L
C'mon dude. You're reading WAY too much into the icon.
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Old 04-21-2010
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NOW THAT'S COOL! I've never seen those. Great link black!
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  #50  
Old 04-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_L View Post
It would meet my needs, but it doesn't meet remetau's requirements, as it also has a righting ladder.

Paul L
It may meet my needs, but I already have a Givens 4 man though and am considering on replacing. I'm just saying that a 6 or 8 man raft should not require 6 or 8 persons to keep it upright since many life situations will have a raft of that size with less people aboard.

To me, a 4, 6, or 8 man raft should be deployed upright and stay that way! If it can't, then it is not worth the purchase!!!!!!!!!! I can get a frigin' dinghy for much cheaper!!

There will be times when a 4, 6 or 8 man/woman raft has only one or two people in it. I can guarantee that if it is the person that bought that raft, they expect it to stay upright!
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