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  #11  
Old 05-23-2010
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No; that was not the issue with the City of Berkeley. Yes; there was a molestation arrest/conviction against a Berkeley-based Sea Scout leader, but that was not what I was referring to.

The City of Berkeley passed a resolution not to support any troop that is associated with the Boy Scouts of America; because of a clause in the pledge: "I pledge to be morally straight". Which to everyone (including the United Way) is taken as anti-Gay. They take it as if a child or adult joining the Scouts is gay; they would not be allowed or kicked out if it was determined that they were. I don't think there has ever been a scout or leader not allowed to join the Scouts; even if they were gay. There was lawsuits that went all the way to the Supreme Court about this; and the BSA won and did not change their oath. So that's when cities like Berkeley pulled their sponsorship help (like free slip rental for the Berkeley based ship). The United Way also pulled their donations to BSA and for that reason I will never donate to them.
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  #12  
Old 05-23-2010
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Berkeley kicked the Sea Scouts out of the marina because of the Scout's anti-gay stance regarding membership. The Sea Scouts wanted free berthing for their large vessel, but didn't want to follow Berkeley's anti-discrimination policies. So they got the heave-ho. And rightly so. IMHO. Had nothing to do with anything else.
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Old 05-23-2010
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What anti-discrimination? As I said before; nobody had EVER been turned away from joining the Berkeley Sea Scouts. Why should the BSA be forced to change a 100 year old oath; on the demand of the ACLU? The ACLU is little more that the Progressive Mafia; strong arming people to do whatever liberals want in the name of "civil rights".

The BSA won their case against the ACLU and were not required to change their oath. The term "morally straight" has little to do with if you are gay or not. It has more to do with how you conduct yourself; in all aspects of relationships with people around you. It means you will be honorable in your actions and not be lewd/lascivious towards others. If you as a scout or officer break this oath it is grounds for being kicked out of the BSA; and that is the reason it is part of the Scout Oath. It really says nothing about what a person's sexual orientation is; but that's the case that liberals make against that phrase.
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  #14  
Old 05-23-2010
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Hey, if the Sea Scouts want to exclude gay people from their membership- more power to 'em. They just don't get to berth their delapidated POS boat in the Berkeley Marina at the taxpayer's expense, that's all.

BTW- the Sea Scouts lost their case (and an appeal) against the City of Berkeley in the California Supreme Court, because of their anti-gay membership policy.

Last edited by Fstbttms; 05-23-2010 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 05-23-2010
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Dude-

WHEN did anyone EVER GET EXCLUDED? The oath says nothing to exclude someone if they are gay. The term "morally straight" is 100 years old; do you think that it MIGHT have an old-world meaning (like "I won't squeeze my date's @ss at the dance"); and that in today's language of gay vs. straight a new meaning has been ASSIGNED BY LIBERALS to that term?
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Old 05-23-2010
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Originally Posted by KeelHaulin View Post
Dude-

WHEN did anyone EVER GET EXCLUDED? The oath says nothing to exclude someone if they are gay. The term "morally straight" is 100 years old; do you think that it MIGHT have an old-world meaning (like "I won't squeeze my date's @ss at the dance"); and that in today's language of gay vs. straight a new meaning has been ASSIGNED BY LIBERALS to that term?
I didn't make the court's ruling, I merely repeat it to you here. The U.S Supreme Court ruled that the BSA is allowed to exclude gays. The California Supreme Court ruled that the City of Berkeley could refuse to subsidize the Sea Scouts because of that very same policy.
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The BSA has never excluded ANYONE. Hell there are even ALL GIRL and CO-ED UNITS of the Sea Scouts! Remember; this is a division of the BOY Scouts of America! How many pre-pubescent boys KNOW that they are Gay?

So instead of letting the issue go; and accepting the pledge by the Berkeley Sea Scout Ship that they would not exclude anyone (regardless of how the oath might be interpereted); Berkeley takes away their donated slip fee to help bring financial ruin to a group that was helping kids get out onto SF Bay and learn about boating and seamanship since the 1940's? That's what you call a bunch of politically motivated @ssholes with an agenda; and no knowledge of what it means to under-privileged kids who would never have a chance to go on the bay in a boat.

Last edited by KeelHaulin; 05-23-2010 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 05-23-2010
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Originally Posted by KeelHaulin View Post
The BSA has never excluded ANYONE.
Not true.

Boy Scouts of America et al. v. Dale, 530 U.S. 640 (2000), was a case of the Supreme Court of the United States overturning the New Jersey Supreme Court's application of the New Jersey public accommodations law, which had forced the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) to readmit assistant Scoutmaster James Dale. When he was a student at Rutgers University, Dale became copresident of the Lesbian/Gay student alliance. Then, in July 1990, he attended a seminar on the health needs of lesbian and gay teenagers. During the seminar, he was interviewed, and the work was subsequently published. He was expelled from Scouting after BSA officials read the interview in a local newspaper and Dale was quoted as stating he was gay.

Boy Scouts of America v. Dale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-23-2010
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Do you think it MIGHT have something to do with all of the problems the BSA has had with child molestation? While I'm sure the case can be made that same-sex child molesters are not always gay; I think the BSA is in a tight spot on this. What do they say to parents if they knowingly admit a gay who is later found to be a child molester? Do they say; yep, we knew he was gay (attracted to his own sex) and we allowed your boy to be taken camping by him? At least if the person has taken the "morally straight" oath and is non-gay (not attracted to their own sex); the risk is minimized as much as possible; no?

The oath is there for a reason; and it transcends whether you are gay or not.
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  #20  
Old 05-23-2010
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Originally Posted by KeelHaulin View Post
Do you think it MIGHT have something to do with all of the problems the BSA has had with child molestation?
What happened to all your, "The BSA doesn't exclude ANYONE!" posturing?

BTW- it doesn't matter why they have an anti-gay policy, the fact of the matter is that they do.
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