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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #11  
Old 06-02-2010
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Always remember that if you change the way one thing on your boat works, it may impact many other things, including things you might not have thought about.
Take raising the boom as an example (btw, quickvocab lesson-the outhaul is connected to the boom,and the boom is connected to the mast and the mast sits on the mast step, and the green grass grew all aro... er, you get the point.)-
If you raise the boom, it means your mainsail will not fit. The mast is still the same height, and if the boom is higher on the mast, it means you have a sail that is too long. But it is not just too long, it is now also the wrong shape. So now you need a new main, or some pretty drastic work done to your existing main. It is also going to change the way your boat sails, because you have now moved the center of effort upwards, and have depowered the boat but cutting down on the size of the main. Meanwhile, by making your cabin house taller, the sail area you lost on the main you have sorta added to the top of your cabin, which may have an impact on how your boat handles, especially when maneuvering in tight quarters, like coming into a slip with the wind on your beam (from the side.)


Here's a great place to translate terms you hear here which are unfamiliar:
Big Glossary
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  #12  
Old 06-02-2010
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IF I get hard core into this sailing. I do plan on making some pretty serious modifications to this boat. It cost me so little that its going to be my "go crazy" on it boat.

I am not worried about the sail area. since it I would be moving the boom 1-2 feet at most. IE I would lop 2 feet off the TOP of the sale where you get the least about of work from anyway (I don't know sailing but I know just enough about aerodynamics and physics to be a little dangerous :-)

Moment of effort IS something I was concerned about. I am hoping such a small shift would have minimal impact. Me being a pretty darned big fellow (380 pounds) might offset this a little and keep things in balance.

I don't plan to race and when I get into harbor I use the motor.

I also plan to add bow and stern thruster of my own design to make docking maneuvers easier. (to me doing this kind of work this kind of modifying is 90% of the "FUN" for me ie I LIKE doing the work)

I want to try and find some sealed brushless motors that can handle salt water exposure so I can keep things tiny. 4 motors. 2 for forward backwards thrusting and 1 bow and stern for side thrusting.

Rig all this up to a 3 axis joystick Kill the outboard at 0 motion then use the thrusters to move the boat around. I will need to figure out what kind of power I need to handle side slip from windage since the boat has a lot of above water surface area and I need to be able to counter that plus another 20% to make the thrusters effective.

joystick forward back for same motions left and right for same motions and "twist" for rotation. the actual wiring and even installation on the boat will be pretty light duty work for me. I will build a prototype first using a canoe or maybe my power boat and see how it goes.

the only hard part will be finding small enough powerful enough and CHEAP enough motors :-)

I can get motors that will give me 150 pounds of thrust in atmo. for under $100

how many pounds of thrust does say a 10mph wind apply to the boat.

I can probably dig up the equations to figure it out via surface area. Bit lazy just now :-) I think its about half a pound of thrust per square foot of perpendicular surface area at 10mph. Jumps to over 1 pound of force at 15mph. (I do know its an exponential curve not linear)

So I would probably want to shoot for the 1 pound of thrust per square foot.

figure 135 square feet of boat exposed to the wind broadside so I need 135 pounds of force. to balance that.

Ideally I would want 200-250 pounds of side force at my command. that might be doable for a few hundred bucks. Then I would be "safe" up to around 15-18 mph gusts.

50 pounds of thrust should be more than enough for forward and backwards for simple docking speeds. so a trolling motor would be enough for that as long as I did not go fast and build up too much inertia. (even 3-4 mph is a lot of inertia at 2800 pounds :-)

GREAT URL by the way. Gonna dig into that and bookmark it.

as for side effects That is why I come here. I know too little about this stuff to be able to say I can do this and it won't mess with anything. Tap into the group knowledge here :-) before I kill myself or wreck my boat.

all this is just fun for thought for now. For this summer I am just going to enjoy the boat as is.

but I love dreaming too :-)

Last edited by nerys; 06-02-2010 at 11:35 AM.
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  #13  
Old 06-02-2010
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OMG! you really don't need thrusters on a little boat! YIKES!

suggestion; just fix up the boat make it basically as designed. learn to dock it, then.. only then learn to sail it. (your still welcome on my boat)

A sail would be cut at the bottom also. My offer to help you rig the boat is still there, let me know.

ps; you don't need to raise the boom.
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  #14  
Old 06-02-2010
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Oh like I said I am not doing anything to it this seasons except make it sea worthy and learn to sail it. Nothing more.

This is just fantasy sailboat porn :-). I like to dream up things I can or might do in the future and chat about it online.

I am going down again tommorrow to do more work on it. I think I have pretty much everything I need for the boat itself.

Just got to add the new support structure. Replace 2 tires. patch the fenders (duct tape for now)

Free up that keel. I got a nice recip saw (they got my hand held cordless one vermin) I am going to try and work that free too.

Got to start looking for some bottom paint too. Not "too" concerned with that since I won't be leaving it in the water. But next year I hope to join your club so will need bottom paint by then.

Its all legal now so as soon as the hardware is ready I can get wet.

I am hoping in 1 to 2 weeks to be able to make the trip to the water. Are you up for a trip down to the shore? Dinner and transportation on me if you want (its the least I can do for all the help!!)
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  #15  
Old 06-02-2010
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That would be ok Chris, We will need a few cool days since i'm in the AC biz and suddenly busy. Sheet metal and pop rivets would work on the fenders. Boat fenders are inflatable ball or tube like things that hang on the sides. The rubrail is what you were describing
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  #16  
Old 06-02-2010
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Learn to sail it first. Don't do any of the things you've talked about doing to it. Read up; do research; take a sailing class or hire an instructor.

Some of the things you're talking about could be dangerous when done by someone who doesn't have a clue about boat design or building. Forget about resale value; you could be dealing with making the boat totally worthless as a sailboat, or in fact, simply dangerous.
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  #17  
Old 06-02-2010
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Ahhh yes I have seen those. The little white vinyl pillows you hang off the side of the boat. I always called them dock pillows :-) hehe

I will let you know when the boat is ready then you let me know when you want to do it. from the 23rd of july to august 12-13 I will be away anytime before or after that you just say the word I will make time.

Ilikerust. I understand where your coming from but a few things to note.

First I have no intention as already stated in doing anything to the boat except repair her and make her ship shape until I Have sailed her. Learned to sail her and have done a few over nighters and century trips in her. IE until I am proficient.

Until I am proficient I have no basis with which to just what is and is not a good idea workable idea etc..

IF I KEEP this boat long term. IF I get proficient. IF I end up loving sailing. I WILL be making some hard core modifications to the boat.

but only if they "can" work based on my future experience and what I learn from others. If they can be done safely. Are within my skill set (none of my proposals are outside of my physical skill set to actually "do" though this does not tell me if they are a good idea or not, I am pretty skilled at fiberglass carbon fiber and kevlar layup and repair. I build 200 pound rockets that experience 300g's at liftoff Its a hobby for me :-). and If I am not getting a larger boat that can already do the things I want.

Part of the hobby for me is "talking" to other people online about my dreams and the things I want to do. I might find from talking to you folks others have already done some of these things and have easier or maybe professional predone ways to do some of them.

For example the easiest way I see to get my boom where I want it is to raise the WHOLE ENTIRE boom and just add a foot to the bottom of the boom. No sail modifications No rigging modifications. everything stays as it is and just becomes higher.

Before I would even THINK of doing that I would talk to a few pros to find out how the aerodynamic and hydrodynamic qualities of the boat would change. It might turn out I would need another 50 pounds of ballast to counter the height increase etc.. Or it might turn out the combination of the things I would need to change would exceed the structural limits of the boat.

all that comes later. all that comes before I make a single change. all that comes after I can sail from here to florida on my own with proficiency and experience.

I am a dreamer. but I am also not an idiot and don't want to DIE :-)

I think you need to read your own quote man

""Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
- Mark Twain "

No worries I won't rush in head long or do anything rash or stupid.

but when I can not do "actual" work I like to dream and discuss future potential ideas and projects. To me the discussion is almost as much fun as the work itself :-) Dreaming costs nothing work costs money in parts :-) hehe

Tomorrow I will hopefully be able to fix the tires. also going to power wash the crap out of it get it cleaned up. Get more water out start drying it out. Go over the tiller and rudder make sure they are ok (is there a guide anywhere to assist me with inspecting it to make sure its safe?)
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  #18  
Old 06-02-2010
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Hack the mast off completely, raise the whole cabin, cut off the keel and install a big motor

I've seen a few boats for sale that have had the pop-tops permanently enlarged and they all look just ridiculous. Sort of like a boat, but speshul.
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  #19  
Old 06-02-2010
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that kind of defeats the point now don't it.

IF I were to raise the roof line I would not raise just the pop top. I would raise it all the way forward as if the entire hull was always like that.
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  #20  
Old 06-03-2010
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That kind of extra windage would certainly make up for any sail area you lost
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