Lifting the main beam higher? possible?

nerys · #1 06-01-2010

The main boom coming off the mast (outhaul??)

My sailboat is a "pop top" I have to raise this pop top so I can stand up inside.

I want to make this permanent. IE fully enclose it in maybe even make this area larger.

How hard is this? IE I would have to raise the outhaul (sounds like the wrong word but thats what google says it is I thought it was called the boom or beam) a foot or two so It can do its side to side thing without me having to lower the pop top.

How hard is this? I don't mind losing a tiny bit of speed for this comfort/convenience in design. Can I just raise up the whole sail and lop off the top 2 feet of the main sail?

How does all that work?

its a 78 luger tradewinds 26

Thanks

Faster · #2 06-01-2010

I wouldn't recommend it. Building up the pop top is going to ruin the sight lines from the cockpit when you're sailing. The performance hit might be more than you think, and the boat will look "odd" and be more difficult to resell one day.

It is called the boom, btw. The outhaul is the line or tackle that stretches the foot of the mainsail out.

nerys · #3 06-01-2010

Hmm I am 6'3" so I would still have just fine a sight (though I will reserve that statement till I actually sail it and can know what a sight line REALLY means while my head would still be above the pop top I could be missing something since I am a complete newb at this.

Not concerned with resale. I paid $150 for it and the trailer :-)

Can you clarify on what sight lines are? At first I thought you meant see over the front of the boat but you probable would have said that if thats what you meant so I assume sight lines is a sailing specific terms?

is there a good URL to learn all these terms?

IF I were to make the pop top "up permanent" I would make the WHOLE BOAT taller as far forward as was aesthetically/functionally pleasing.

Its more a pipe dream idea anyway since it would be a lot of work though not all that expensive.

Just something I thought about to start a conversation on :-)

FSMike · #4 06-02-2010

"Sight line" is what you thought, the ability to see in whichever direction. Raising the boom and making a permanent poptop/cabin extension will not be simple. To raise the boom you have to either raise the mast or reduce the sail area. Since you will be sitting a lot of the time when sailing, your height will not help much with visibility.

deniseO30 · #5 06-02-2010

The logic with pop tops, is you pop the top when your anchored or docked! Just like a camper with a pop top! You really don't want to mess with the sail plan,

Sailormon6 · #6 06-02-2010

The only way it might be safe is if you fully enclosed the area with fiberglass, making it watertight, and not just covered by a canvas pop top enclosure. That would be expensive, labor intensive, and, unless you have extraordinary craftsmanship skills, it would look dreadful.

It's dangerous to sail a small boat with an open pop top, or with a pop top only enclosed by canvas. That feature is only suitable for use at the dock. I know some people do it, but I also know a guy who's Catalina 22 sank when it took a knockdown while the hatchboards were not in place, and it filled with water and sank in less than a minute. An open pop top is much more vulnerable than open hatchboards.

It's usually not good to do major surgery on a boat. It's almost always better to buy a boat that already meets your needs, even if it needs some repairs.

nerys · #7 06-02-2010

Hmm I had assumed I needed to be standing to sail. Yeah if sitting sight would be an issue. I am not worried about the work I do a lot of glassing with fiber carbon and kevlar. but yeah don't want to frak things up and ruin the boat either :-)

IF I did it (leaning toward leaving it alone now) it would be full fiberglass/carbon replacement not just canvas around the pop up.

deniseO30 · #8 06-02-2010

No, you can sail sitting down in a smaller boat, stand when the sails are set. but if you gybe! DUCK! From what I've seen, only 30ish or larger boats allow you to stand all the time. I was able to stand on my Hunter 23 but the boom would be close to my face when tacking. DUCK!

nerys · #9 06-02-2010

yeah my boom is pretty light but man I have a feeling it would have a hell of an inertial whop if it hit me at speed. Don't want that :-)

Then again if I raised the boom "I COULD" stand while sailing which might be better for me. heck maybe I already can stand. I really have no idea mentally WHERE The boom sits on the mast. I just don't remember clearly enough when we towed it where the boom was sitting. Might all be moot. I keep using pictures and video I have seen of sail boats and everyone is always standing. Keep forgetting this is not a 40ft ocean craft :-)

Either way I am doing nothing to it until I have learned how to SAIL IT since all of this is theoretical nothing till I actually know what I am doing :-)

We are going out together with with the CL for the census work friday and saturday. SO I am going to go down to EHC again thursday and try to get more work done on the boat.

Wish those damned bolts did not cost so much money or I could finish the trailer work tomorrow. Got to go buy a tool set so I can take the lugs off that other wheel.

Suggestions on SAFELY jacking up the trailer with the boat on it? I was hoping to just tip it again and put the wheels in the air since it did that once without damage.

No way in hell am I going to be able to do that. I tried it and all my strength could not lift the front of that trailer. So any attempt to MAKE it lift would be exceedingly unsafe in my book. This means drag it out onto the asphalt and jack it.

how far can I jack it without danger? am I being overly paranoid? I fear as I jack one side its going to put more stress on the opposite side. Then again I imagine it took 100 times that stress as it bobbed around at 60mph when I was bringing it home. so again maybe I am being overly paranoid about it.

Gonna go see what tires he has. One thing I am worried about is weight rating. I might not be able to go lower profile tires if the boat is 2800 pounds and the trailer is 1000 pounds and figure some misc mass water etc.. the boat could easily have a normal mass of 4500-5000 pounds thats 1200 or so pounds PER TIRE.

I will see what he has and what he suggests and I think I will replace all 4 tires since they are at least 15+ years old. Would suck real bad to drop the boat on the roadway before I get it wet even one time :-)

Either way I am going to have to put it in the water one time just so I can hack the trailer super structure. I figure that one time I will keep it in the water long enough to run it on the outboard etc..

Can't really sail it as I have no idea what I am doing and am not even sure I can tell the difference between the main sail and the jib not to speak of actually trying to raise a sail :-)

at least then the trailer should make itself know to me if I will feel ok towing it back to PA to launch locally.

I think I will try raising the mast and rigging that part so I can lower it again without taking off all the rigging I was not supposed to the first time :-) hehe

I also want to build some cradle mounts for the mast when its on the trailer. Right now it rests on the top of the boat. This is why i removed the pop top and put it inside. the mast sat low enough that it would bend and likely break the pop top. I want to cradle it higher so it will be well supported rigid and allow me to LEAVE the pop top and door in place to keep the water out :-) the crew area does drain properly so if I button it up no water should get inside.

One issue I have is getting collected water out. There are cross beams along the bottom inside of the hull. this creates segregated cavities for the water to sit in. SO I have to move the bilge pump from "section to section" to rid it of the water.

is this normal or should the water somehow be able to run from section to section?

Suggestions on DRYING OUT the interior once I get the bulk of the loose water out? I don't think a heater would work as that would just raise the humidity level in the summer time.

would a dehumidifier be enough? button it up and turn it on and leave it for a few days (with a drain for the water collected)

what do you guys do to dry these things out?

merc2dogs · #10 06-02-2010

There should be holes between sections so the water is able to collect in the lowest part of the bilge, check with a stiff piece of wire on the lowest spots for small holes that may be clogged with debris.

My view on a pop-top, is that they are too small to give any real advantage, every one that I've seen gave at most about 6 square feet where I could comfortably stand without stooping over, and due to the height difference, I still had to stoop so I could look under the corner and see what I was doing.
I found it was never worth the hassle to raise it. It was far better (my opinion) to re-arrange things so I could get everything done while sitting.

I secured the top in position, got rid of all the support mechanism and found that the boat sailed much nicer, it was a lot stiffer without the added weight up top.

I was in the process of collecting materials to eliminate it completely when I sold the boat. The buyer had me help him re-install everything so he could use the pop-top, then sailed the boat for a couple months. Later that summer he asked me to help with the conversion to hard top, so apparently he had the same idea after using it.

ken.