To Scuttle Or Not To Scuttle? - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 06-21-2010
MarioG's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 402
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 5
MarioG is on a distinguished road
What ever happen to the captain going down with his ship? I would do what ever I could to save my boat, if it doesn't sink on its own I will save it.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 06-21-2010
JT1019's Avatar
Belliure 41'
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 136
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
JT1019 is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to JT1019
A couple of thoughts come to mind. You don’t need to be rescued until you have to step up from your ship to get into a liferaft. Yes there are some exceptions to this but 99% of the time if the ship is floating you are in good shape. As to scuttling a ship many things come into play here; How far from land are you? (Is the distance too great for a tow? Will she ever wash ashore? Can she be tracked?) Are you in a high traffic area or will she drift into a high traffic area?) Do you have the resources to retrieve her? (A mid-ocean tow is big money) How deep is the water? (Will your scuttled ship become an underwater hazard?) What other options are there? (Can you set a drogue to reduce drift? Drop an anchor so if she goes close to land she will anchor herself? etc.) What do your rescuers think is the right thing to do? (USCG will have an opinion, so will other rescue agencies).

Insurance is not really a problem if the right things are assessed. A good case can be built for all thing but you have to do what is right. As was said earlier if you are in such danger as you must abandon ship than I believe the ship must be in peril and will flounder sometime soon. That being the situation accelerating the process for documentation reasons is not only understandable but the right thing to do. In all cases the ship should be secured so as to not add to the already polluted/dangerous waters (run the engine out of fuel, burn all oil liquids if possible, puncture all plastic and lash it to the ship, neutralize all toxins, save all documentation). Finally open two seacocks, one below the waterline and one above. This is like a slow burning fuse as the one below will slowly lower the ship until the second one is below the waterline then she will rapidly sink.

If someone is to leave their vessel abandoned hoping to salvage her other things must be done as well to assure she is safe, sound, visible and not a danger to other ships. Secure everything as tight as possible, place one reflector on deck and the rest in the rigging, spray-paint key information somewhere on deck or on the hull to assure you are contacted if she is found in advance of your salvage, close all seacock’s except those for bilge pumps, shut everything down except bilge pumps, anchor light, set sea anchor, remove all sails from deck, unlock all compartments to make the salvage easier, hang ignition key on the seacock with instructions to the battery switch, etc.

Some of the best sailors in the world have had to make this very decision.
__________________
“Greatness Is Not In Where We Stand, But In What Direction We Are Moving. We Must Sail Sometimes With The Wind And Sometimes Against It – But Sail We Must, And Not Drift, Nor Lie At Anchor.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 06-21-2010
Cabin boy
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 140
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
JimHawkins is on a distinguished road
If your boat has an engine, fuel, fuel tanks, propane, waste, or waste tanks you are clearly in violation of MARPOL if you scuttle your vessel. And that's ignoring the large piece of plastic we call a hull.

Why would you do it? To eliminate a navigation hazard? A yacht isn't much of a hazard. If a ship hits it they probably won't even notice. If a yacht hits it they might do some damage but they probably won't sink. And they should have been standing watch anyway.

Last edited by JimHawkins; 06-23-2010 at 09:10 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 06-22-2010
Omatako's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 2,371
Thanks: 0
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 11
Omatako will become famous soon enough
What is MARPA?

Whatever it is it can't be too formidable since it doesn't appear with any sea-related connection on the first three pages of a Google search.

If MARPA in the sailing context is what I think it is, what they stand for sometimes doesn't matter anymore. Would the MARPA POLICE prefer boats that have been abandonded floating around on top of the sea or resting on the bottom? Either way the pollution is the same. The danger in the first option are far more real.

And when a ship sinks, what are MARPA going to do? There are a lot of organisations around that have very high standards that they don't have to maintain themselves. Maybe MARPA isn't one of them but if they expect every vessel that gets into dire trouble at sea to be rescued and brought ashore they're living in a fool's paradise.

Ships have been sinking since they began sailing centuries ago and no organisation is going to change that.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

__________________

"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying."

Arthur C. Clarke
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 06-22-2010
n0w0rries's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 239
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
n0w0rries is on a distinguished road
I didn't feel comfortable going offshore until I rigged scuttling charges on my boat. Just in case!
__________________
Caribbean 50 Ketch
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 06-22-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
MARPA, at least in the context of small sailboats usually refers to Mini Automatic Radar Plotting Aids—or Mini ARPA. It has nothing to do with scuttling boats AFAIK. What they probably meant was MARPOL, which is the international treaty on MARine POLlution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
Whatever it is it can't be too formidable since it doesn't appear with any sea-related connection on the first three pages of a Google search.

If MARPA in the sailing context is what I think it is, what they stand for sometimes doesn't matter anymore. Would the MARPA POLICE prefer boats that have been abandonded floating around on top of the sea or resting on the bottom? Either way the pollution is the same. The danger in the first option are far more real.

And when a ship sinks, what are MARPA going to do? There are a lot of organisations around that have very high standards that they don't have to maintain themselves. Maybe MARPA isn't one of them but if they expect every vessel that gets into dire trouble at sea to be rescued and brought ashore they're living in a fool's paradise.

Ships have been sinking since they began sailing centuries ago and no organisation is going to change that.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 06-22-2010
KeelHaulin's Avatar
STARBOARD!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,662
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 10
KeelHaulin will become famous soon enough KeelHaulin will become famous soon enough
I think you are doing your insurance company a service by letting the boat sink. If you don't; the insurance company is still on the hook for either collision damage caused by the adrift hull; or wreck removal (and environmental fines) if it comes ashore. I really don't understand why an Ins company would hold it against you if you were in a location where retrieval was not feasible (say more than 10NM offshore). The closer the boat is to shore; the easier it would be to retrieve, but the potential for it to become a wreck on a shoreline where removal would be difficult is greater also.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 06-22-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 266
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
sailor50 is on a distinguished road
Good question!

I was amazed that the Hunter 46' (Jopie Helsen modified to 47') "JADE" could be left adrift in the Gulf of Mexico after this years Isla Mujeres Race from St. Pete to Mexico -500 miles.

In the midst of the Deepwater Horizon spill. I thought with all the recovery boats going to LA, this would have been a hazard to navigation. After the CG took all of them aboard, the tracker was turned off - and the boat allowed to sail off until the "salvagers" took possession.

It is remarkable that the boat is back in Sailors Wharf - Jopie's Haulout yard!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 06-22-2010
CalebD's Avatar
Tartan 27' owner
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,498
Thanks: 4
Thanked 82 Times in 75 Posts
Rep Power: 7
CalebD will become famous soon enough
Then there was that guy named Skip something who was sailing back from Hawai'i after that crazy single handed race they do from the US to HI every couple of years. He was a very experienced skipper and was caught in heavy weather for a number of days in a 27' (or so) boat he had built himself. He radioed the CG and boarded a nearby shipping ... ship. He scuttled his boat before leaving but had NO insurance, if I recall correctly. He was also several hundred miles from any land.
Some of you will remember this fellow from the sketchy details I have barely provided.
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Everybody has one:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 06-23-2010
Low Salt Diet Sufferer
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 64
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
kulokoo is on a distinguished road
I think it was Skip Allan

L38: Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude
More: Skip Allan's Decision to Scuttle Wildflower | Single-Handed Transpac Champion Makes a Difficult Decision | I Sail Away

I got the impression he felt it was inevitable the boat would sink, so took his chance to be rescued, and then scuttled his boat. I guess there would always be the question of what would have happened if one did not abandon - if you don't scuttle, you may find out when the boat sails into some port on its own.

I can scarcely imagine the state one must be in after battling truly fearsome conditions singlehanded for days on end, I am just glad when the sailor gets back to port, anyway possible. A couple sailors were lost in sight of a restaurant patron this last May, we survive at the ocean's grace and discretion.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sudden squalls scuttle sailing (Chicago Tribune) NewsReader News Feeds 1 07-31-2006 09:15 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:35 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012