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  #31  
Old 07-28-2010
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Originally Posted by jcalvinmarks View Post
I'm not sure that anything was clearly shown by Abby Sunderland, other than the Southern Ocean in June is a bad idea.
There you have it.
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  #32  
Old 07-28-2010
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post

As Abby S's case clearly showed, there is a line somewhere at which point the honor in that tradition can be taken advantage of.
Huh?? Are you saying Abby set out to roll and dismast her vessel in the Indian Ocean, to take advantage of tradition? Surely, needing rescue wasn't in her plan, but that's what every nation's coast guard does..... without hesitation.
Who is being rescued, a competitor in a yacht race (see Sydney Hobart, Vendee Globe, Fastnet, etc.), passengers on a ferry, fishermen, a 16yo from Ca, or an amateur sailor on a little lake in Tx who forgot to put the plug in, shouldn't matter, because nobody knowingly sets out to be rescued.
That's one of those gov. services that cannot discriminate, besides every now end again they need real emergency training.
The Coast Guard rescued over 1 mil. people so far, how many do you think should have been left out there, for various reasons( age, IQ, lack of seaworthy vessel, lack of experience, serves them right for participating in a dangerous race around the world , lack of gov. funds, etc)?
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  #33  
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
There you have it.
Just because it's a bad idea doesn't mean she shouldn't have been rescued.

I think that giving just any 16-year-old a driver's license and a new car is a bad idea (much worse that giving them a yacht and letting them sail around the world, in fact, because in the latter they aren't likely to kill anyone else, and they may learn something valuable in the meantime). But if I see where a 16-year-old has wrecked the new BMW that daddy gave her, I'm going to stop and help. And the fire department and EMTs are going to help as well. And I'm not going to send her a bill for my time, and neither is the fire department. That's how it works.

If the 16 year stops on the side of the road and calls 911 over a broken fingernail, that's a different story.
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  #34  
Old 07-28-2010
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...or an amateur sailor on a little lake in Tx who forgot to put the plug in, shouldn't matter, because nobody knowingly sets out to be rescued....
Damn, you heard about that? Look it was a really little plug. Anyone could have overlooked it.
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  #35  
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The tradition of maritime rescue is not a standalone-promise. It's a contract. Its an agreement between sailors and rescuers, and _both_ parties have an obligation to meet.

The rescuer will be available, hell or high water, and will put themselves in harms way, even loose their lives from time to time, and will do so at a moments notice.

The sailor, as a result, must respect that commitment. The sailor is obligated to honor the rescuer by doing everything in their power to put themselves in a position to not need rescuing. This means proper seamanship. This means risk management. This means recognizing that, while everything we do involves an opportunity for danger, there are ways to mitigate much of that.

A sailor is free to swing their fist only until their fist is within range of a rescuers nose. At that point, a sailor must recognize that they are putting more than themselves at inappropriate risk.

The bottom line is that it is one thing to know it's possible for bad things to happen. It's another thing entirely when my plan for dealing with bad things is to call for help because I don't know what else to do.
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  #36  
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Changed boats too; now on a Jeanneau Gin fizz a 38 footer from the 70s.

It is not on Mahina's offshore list though.
Neither is an S&S34. I didn't bother checking for an Open 40 ...
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She gets sympathy points from me because the idea of the courts seizing custody of a minor child from his or her parents over something like this galls my Libertarian point of view.

If she wants to go, and she is prepared to go, and her legal guardian ascents [...]

"assents" ... as in, no court has ever assented to being sued in a case like this so that is not likely to go anywhere ...
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  #38  
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"assents" ... as in, no court has ever assented to being sued in a case like this so that is not likely to go anywhere ...
Yeah, I noticed that and I was wondering if anyone was going to take me to task over it.
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not taking you to task, just pointing it out ... if the parents "ascent", I'd send them up the mast as their first ascent in the voyage...
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  #40  
Old 07-28-2010
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Originally Posted by CapTim View Post
The tradition of maritime rescue is not a standalone-promise. It's a contract. Its an agreement between sailors and rescuers, and _both_ parties have an obligation to meet.

The rescuer will be available, hell or high water, and will put themselves in harms way, even loose their lives from time to time, and will do so at a moments notice.

The sailor, as a result, must respect that commitment. The sailor is obligated to honor the rescuer by doing everything in their power to put themselves in a position to not need rescuing. This means proper seamanship. This means risk management. This means recognizing that, while everything we do involves an opportunity for danger, there are ways to mitigate much of that.

A sailor is free to swing their fist only until their fist is within range of a rescuers nose. At that point, a sailor must recognize that they are putting more than themselves at inappropriate risk.

The bottom line is that it is one thing to know it's possible for bad things to happen. It's another thing entirely when my plan for dealing with bad things is to call for help because I don't know what else to do.
I think that's very well stated. Nicely played dude.
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