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  #41  
Old 07-29-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalvinmarks View Post
You know, there's plenty of room for disagreement and civil discussion on this issue, but that's a pretty callous, God-awful, piss-poor attitude you've got there.
You may be right but I bet my callous, god-awful, piss-poor attitude is shared by all the people who funded the rescue of the last abortive attempt.

I'm tired of going on about how dumb, stupid, ill-advised, idiotic this little dream is so I won't.

Whilst I am not wishing any harm to this little girl, I hope that in the very unfortunate event that she has to be rescued, we will see your post on this board that volunteers a reasonable slice of your personal wealth to the cost of her rescue.

If you're not prepared to do that then STFU
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  #42  
Old 07-29-2010
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I'm not sure that anything was clearly shown by Abby Sunderland, other than the Southern Ocean in June is a bad idea.
And I guess you believe that this fact was discovered by Abby?

Actually I believe it was known before she left home.
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  #43  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
Whilst I am not wishing any harm to this little girl, I hope that in the very unfortunate event that she has to be rescued, we will see your post on this board that volunteers a reasonable slice of your personal wealth to the cost of her rescue.
Yeah, I already "volunteer" that amount of money. It's called "taxes." Which would you rather pay for, to rush ambulances out to the thousands of traffic accidents caused by reckless teenagers, or to mount a rescue operation for someone who runs into trouble sailing around the world? And here's the news: you're paying for both. But as I said earlier, the sailor isn't going to hurt anyone but themselves, and maybe they'll learn something worthwhile in the process.


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If you're not prepared to do that then STFU
Very nice. Tell me, what happened in your life to make you such a hateful person?
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  #44  
Old 07-29-2010
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There is no age limit to do this, just a level of sailing experience and maturity that I don't feel a 14 year old has. I also don't think a 14 year old has the physical or mental strength to complete a voyage like this alone. We don't allow 14 year olds to drive, drink, or vote b/c we don't feel they are mature enough to handle the responsibility. How is it that you can feel ok about sending a teenager out into the open ocean single handed?

On another note, won't there be a flotilla of boats around her? So how is this the "youngest" around the world alone anyway?
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  #45  
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Originally Posted by zz4gta View Post
There is no age limit to do this, just a level of sailing experience and maturity that I don't feel a 14 year old has. I also don't think a 14 year old has the physical or mental strength to complete a voyage like this alone. We don't allow 14 year olds to drive, drink, or vote b/c we don't feel they are mature enough to handle the responsibility. How is it that you can feel ok about sending a teenager out into the open ocean single handed?

On another note, won't there be a flotilla of boats around her? So how is this the "youngest" around the world alone anyway?
The point is that it has to be a case-by-case determination. I don't know her, so I'm not going to make a blanket condemnation of anyone undertaking a voyage like this on the basis of age alone. There are 30-year-olds that I know who shouldn't be allowed to drive, certainly shouldn't be allowed to drink, and have no business within 500 yards of a voting booth. But those activities are written into the law, presumably because they have an impact on other people (less so for the drinking, but certainly for the voting and the driving). There's no law that specifies an age limit for a non-commercial recreational sailboat in International waters. So anyone is welcome to try. It's up to that person, or his or her legal guardian if under the age of 18, whether or not to do it. It's not up to you, it's not up to me.

She may be the most capable sailor you ever met. She might be an adequate but unexemplary sailor. She might be a total amateur. I don't know, and you don't know. That's why it's so mind-numbingly irritating to hear all of this talk of how "idiotic" and how "stupid" it is for her to try. Just because you weren't up to it at 14, or because your kid isn't up to it at 14, that doesn't mean that she isn't up to it at 14.

And I doubt there will be a flotilla around her. She's also going with stops, port-to-port, through Panama, unlike Sunderland, so she isn't likely to be in the same sort of isolated, remote waters. She'll have plenty of company along the way.
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  #46  
Old 07-29-2010
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"thousands of traffic accidents caused by reckless teenagers, or to mount a rescue operation for someone who runs into trouble sailing around the world? And here's the news: you're paying for both."

I dont know. My wife got carted off in an ambulance after a traffic accident last year and they sent us a bill for $1500. Seems like we were the only ones paying for that rescue.
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Old 07-29-2010
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Originally Posted by jcalvinmarks View Post
She may be the most capable sailor you ever met. She might be an adequate but unexemplary sailor. She might be a total amateur. I don't know, and you don't know. That's why it's so mind-numbingly irritating to hear all of this talk of how "idiotic" and how "stupid" it is for her to try. Just because you weren't up to it at 14, or because your kid isn't up to it at 14, that doesn't mean that she isn't up to it at 14.
jc, you may or may not know that I have a bit of history around here arguing roughly the same tack your taking above. Here's an example:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/genera...scued-sea.html

I'm all about going big in sailing. And there's no doubt that a solocirc is as big as it gets.

Furthermore, as you'll see in the thread above, I believe that a large part of whether you make it or not is luck. And that no amount of experience or knowledge can get you through that "window" if luck's not holding it open.

On top of that, it comes down to how much one can take physically and mentally. Boats tend to do pretty well on their own. It's typically the skipper that will give in before the boat...for all kinds of reasons. Read the Skip Allan story.

Now, I still believe just as strongly as I did back then that going big in sailing is where the fun and adventure is. But, I also still believe as I did back then that sailors have to really prepare themselves and methodically work up to it.

The reason I believe that is what CapTim wrote above...that rescue is a contract that should be treated very carefully. And I think it's currently on a track where people are beginning to think of it as a right. And that's not good.

People often compare sailing around the world with climbing Mount Everest. The only difference is, if you screw up in the Dead Zone (above 26K feet) - you stay there and die. You're done. No one is coming to get you - even though you can talk to your wife on a satphone as you're freezing and she'll know precisely where you are. Yes, maybe a Sherpa can help you down. But there are many, many bodies up there that say otherwise.

On the other hand, if you screw up in the middle of the Indian Ocean, one of the most remote stretches of water on the planet, you can get picked up.

So, in all this debate about "rights" to "adventure" that includes extreme dangers, something doesn't quite add up. Especially when SAR is called in.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 07-29-2010 at 09:51 AM.
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  #48  
Old 07-29-2010
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Do you sometimes yearn for the days when this would not have been news? I am sure that Laura does and she is too young to remember the days.

Now, everything becomes news, and "experts" on TV, radio, and internet boards share their opinion on why it is wrong. They also "share" why it should not be done, how the offender should be punished, and oh yeah " This is how it should be done!".

People used to do these type of things and nobody knew. Some made it and were better for the experience. Some died...and we never knew. Quit being holier then thou and go sailing for God's sake!
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  #49  
Old 07-29-2010
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The idea of solo sailing does have a certain appeal. I get that. However, I know a lot of 14 year olds, and most, girls particularly, aren't going to naturally be drawn to this type of venture. The appeal loses some of it's luster when faced with the realities. I presume that most solo Circumnavigation attempts, particularly by the young, are more about bragging rights, and book rights, than about a desire for months of solitude. Anyway...

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Furthermore, as you'll see in the thread above, I believe that a large part of whether you make it or not is luck. And that no amount of experience or knowledge can get you through that "window" if luck's not holding it open.
I would agree. If your luck is bad enough, even the most experienced and well prepared aren't going to make it. Likewise, if the luck was good enough, even I could do it. I don't think anyone can be fully prepared so the point comes when is one prepared enough? That is a decision that is up to the individual (and their parents apparently), and not up to me or anyone else.

Quote:
People often compare sailing around the world with climbing Mount Everest. The only difference is, if you screw up in the Dead Zone (above 26K feet) - you stay there and die. You're done. No one is coming to get you - even though you can talk to your wife on a satphone as you're freezing and she'll know precisely where you are. Yes, maybe a Sherpa can help you down. But there are many, many bodies up there that say otherwise.
Recently didn't I read about a 14 year old boy attempting Everest? He must have really annoyed his parents for them to want to get rid of him permanently. Another difference with an Everest summit and a circumnavigation is that an Everest summit is more about physical endurance and less about equipment failure. Both have weather issues, but I think that the weather issue for an Everest summit are a lot more manageable. If weather look dicey for the next several days, you stay in base camp. If the weather looks dicey over the next few days when you are in the middle of the Southern ocean, staying put doesn't do you much good.

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  #50  
Old 07-29-2010
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People used to do these type of things and nobody knew. Some made it and were better for the experience. Some died...and we never knew. Quit being holier then thou and go sailing for God's sake!
+1 to that dude.
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