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  #21  
Old 07-29-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEMIJim View Post
I don't believe that's correct.

Jim
Really ? That's horrifying.

In Australia you must have a boat licence to operate any power boat capable of speeds in excess on ten knots.
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  #22  
Old 07-29-2010
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One thing that does come to mind is that call signs are no longer a part of radio. While many older boats have them, many younger ones do not. An Alpha Numeric call sign would have eliminated or at least vastly reduced the chance of false or mistaken identity.

406Mhz Epirbs only became mandatory in Australia after the BB had disappeared. You have to ask why it is not mandatory for them to be water activated. In Australia that turns an AUD$400.00 manual activated into a $550.00 water. Not a huge impost.

Not that any of this would have done the BB's crew any good. If they didn't have time to manually activate the EPIRB they wouldn't have had time to take other lifesaving actions....life jackets, life raft etc etc.

There was btw a report of a Bob Perry designed Norseman 447 that sank without trace after falling off the back of a huge wave during the Queen's Birthday storm off New Zealand a decade or so back. I'd need to find a copy of the report or links thereto.
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  #23  
Old 07-29-2010
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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I guess that there is always a risk that we have to be prepared to take.
Anyway, there was never a mayday call and the Epirb probably was not at the right place or was an older model without water activation.
Paulo, respectfully, I think you're missing the point. It's certainly not a risk I'd be prepared to take.

There was a radio call from them at some point in their journey that got mixed up by the SAR people. By the time they worked out that there had been a mix-up, the boat had vanished - no-one wil ever know if there was a Mayday or not, since, if there was, it went unheard..

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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
One thing that does come to mind is that call signs are no longer a part of radio. While many older boats have them, many younger ones do not. An Alpha Numeric call sign would have eliminated or at least vastly reduced the chance of false or mistaken identity.
??? I thought you got one with your radio license... (not that everyone is licensed, mind you!)

I guess that's one reason behind the push for everyone to use a properly-configured DSC radio.
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Last edited by Classic30; 07-29-2010 at 09:02 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-29-2010
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Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Paulo, respectfully, I think you're missing the point. It's certainly not a risk I'd be prepared to take.

There was a radio call from them at some point in their journey that got mixed up by the SAR people. By the time they worked out that there had been a mix-up, the boat had vanished - no-one wil ever know if there was a Mayday or not, since, if there was, it went unheard..



??? I thought you got one with your radio license... (not that everyone is licensed, mind you!)

I guess that's one reason behind the push for everyone to use a properly-configured DSC radio.
cough.....

Cam, I think Paulo was actually making the point that everything apparently happened so quickly that the only way any EPIRB was going to be activated was if it was of the water activated type. if they did have time to send a Mayday then surely they would have had time to activate the EPRIB.
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  #25  
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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
cough.....
Oops.. I didn't REALLY post that did I?? Dumdedumdedum,,,

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Cam, I think Paulo was actually making the point that everything apparently happened so quickly that the only way any EPIRB was going to be activated was if it was of the water activated type. if they did have time to send a Mayday then surely they would have had time to activate the EPRIB.
That's all fine and unfortunate... My issue is that from my reading of the court finding, even if they did, it sounds like there was no-one there to hear it.
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  #26  
Old 07-29-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
There was btw a report of a Bob Perry designed Norseman 447 that sank without trace after falling off the back of a huge wave during the Queen's Birthday storm off New Zealand a decade or so back. I'd need to find a copy of the report or links thereto.
TD, the Perrry designed Norseman cutter was the "Destiny" and it pitchpoled whilst running during the 1994 Pacific storm. Both crew were taken off safely, however the skipper had a broken femur.

The yacht that disappeared with trace was "Quartermaster" a Whiting 40, a NZ designed and built yacht.

The books Rescue in the Pacific and The 1994 Pacific Storm Survey have all the details. PM me if you want specific info.

Ilenart
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  #27  
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Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Oops.. I didn't REALLY post that did I?? Dumdedumdedum,,,



That's all fine and unfortunate... My issue is that from my reading of the court finding, even if they did, it sounds like there was no-one there to hear it.
Whats the range of a VHF radio ? 20 - 30 miles ?

Reality is that if they were a fair way offshore their only chance would have been a passing ship and there is not a lot of shipping in the area they were thought to be in.

Also, don't make the mistake of confusing SAR with Marine Rescue/Volunteer Coast Guard/Coastal Patrol or whatever the fleck they are calling themselves this week. Marine Rescue keep a virtual 24 hour/seven days a week radio watch. The SAR people only respond to EPIRBS and Marine Rescue reports....ergo the computer screens.
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  #28  
Old 07-29-2010
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Originally Posted by Ilenart View Post
TD, the Perrry designed Norseman cutter was the "Destiny" and it pitchpoled whilst running during the 1994 Pacific storm. Both crew were taken off safely, however the skipper had a broken femur.

The yacht that disappeared with trace was "Quartermaster" a Whiting 40, a NZ designed and built yacht.

The books Rescue in the Pacific and The 1994 Pacific Storm Survey have all the details. PM me if you want specific info.

Ilenart
I stand corrected but you realise of course that showing up one of the moderating gods is likely to get you banned for life..... When will you people learn that we are never wrong, its just that sometimes the facts are presented in a way that differs from reality.

No, thanks for that. Don't need the details unless you want to post for interest's sake. I really just wanted to give an illustration of a boat disappearing without trace when faced with overwhelming conditions. Being a bit of a dill, I got the boat wrong. Ah me.

To save Ilenart the trouble , here is a link.

Jetsam

Quartermaster did in fact set off her EPIRB, so they had that much warning. Nonetheless, no trace of the boat was ever found , other than an empty liferaft and the EPIRB.

I think we just have to accept that Blessed Be suffered a fate that was as unfortunate as it was both unpredictable and unpreventable.

btw...for those of you who don't know about it, give this a read. Its worth it.
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  #29  
Old 07-29-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Whats the range of a VHF radio ? 20 - 30 miles ?

Reality is that if they were a fair way offshore their only chance would have been a passing ship and there is not a lot of shipping in the area they were thought to be in.
I was thinking HF, actually. 2812 and 2524 are etched into my head from decades ago as being the frequencies you try if ever you're in trouble..

Surely anyone who leaves on an off-shore trip without HF is asking for trouble. True, there may not have been anyone close enough tyo help, but you'd hope that some passing frieghter could at least relay a Mayday to the "right" people (whoever they happen to be) to organise an Abby Sunderland Rescue for you.. and therein lies the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Also, don't make the mistake of confusing SAR with Marine Rescue/Volunteer Coast Guard/Coastal Patrol or whatever the fleck they are calling themselves this week. Marine Rescue keep a virtual 24 hour/seven days a week radio watch. The SAR people only respond to EPIRBS and Marine Rescue reports....ergo the computer screens.
Easy to do.. I'd have thought these people actually talk to each other. Maybe not always.
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  #30  
Old 07-30-2010
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I stand corrected but you realise of course that showing up one of the moderating gods is likely to get you banned for life..... When will you people learn that we are never wrong, its just that sometimes the facts are presented in a way that differs from reality.
No worries TD. I think the main learning point from this situation is that catastrophic failure can happen in minutes or seconds with no time to react. If this happens it does'nt matter how much equipment is on board, and whether it is mandated by regulation is irrelevant.

Your idea of water activated 406 EPIRBs is a good suggestion. Water activated releases on the liferaft would also be a good idea.

You could also argue for auto inflating lifejackets however I've alway been concerned with getting trapped inside or underneath an upturned yacht and having to swim out. In this situation an auto inflating lifejacket would prevent you from escaping. My compromise is that I where a manual inflating lifejacket and have auto inflating lifejackets for the wife and kids, as they are more likely to get knocked or fall overboard through inexperience.

Ilenart
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